Has Packer Nation Gone Off the Deep End?· Page 5

DoddPower
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#41

Tex is an example of someone who is pissing himself a bit.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Oh, I agree, but that guy is absolutely clueless about most things.

play2win
Senior Member

11 years ago

#42

How many teams have more than four of the NFL's best at their positions?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Right. Not too many. I think SF, NO, SEA, KC, DEN, IND immediately come to mind.

And, what about the rest of the team? Are they bad players? Poor talents? Or, were they good talents who weren't properly developed? Personally, I believe Rodgers, Nelson, Sitton and Matthews were going to be stellar talents on nearly any NFL team. Sam Shields seems to be one of the few players up ticking, along with Mike Daniels.

I look at a player like BJ Raji, who was a very, very good player at his position his first two seasons, and he has certainly regressed. Hawk had some great years, namely 2010. His productivity went way down for a couple of seasons before turning things around this year, and even with that, it might be too late for him. Same with Tramon Williams, who has seen his better days.

Finley was supposed to be this world beater, but he never really busted the top 10 at his position. At times these past 4 or 5 years I've wondered if McCarthy knew how to use 2 TEs… but, that's besides the point. How many seasons did we suffer with him experiencing drops, and no accountability. He was a "superstar," and McCarthy treated him as such, pretty much hands-off. He looked to be developing into the player we all hoped he would be after what? 5 or 6 years? Sad that he went down.

I don't know. I'm just frustrated that this team is not better. I thought McMillian would develop into a good player. Same for Burnett. Both have taken big turns in the opposite direction. Worthy? I thought we would get more out of him. Starks has had availability issues, but he doesn't see the ball much even when he's healthy. I had big hopes for Hayward and Franklin, both players waylaid by injury.

I want to mention Pickett, because he has been a ROCK for this team for his entire tenure in GB. He's just older now, playing on a bad wheel this year and not as effective.

All in all, I would say other coaches could get more out of the players we have. We could easily do away with Capers, Lovat and Campen. I'd love to see some accountability, something I have not seen in years in GB.

DoddPower
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#43

All in all, I would say other coaches could get more out of the players we have. We could easily do away with Capers, Lovat and Campen. I'd love to see some accountability, something I have not seen in years in GB.

Originally Posted by: play2win

While I don't agree with your overall premise in other posts in this thread, I do tend to agree with this. I just think that setting a standard of acceptance of mediocrity can be infectious throughout the entire organization.

dhazer
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#44

Originally Posted by: DoddPower

This kind of goes with the oh we should have won that game we are the better team statements we seem to hear alot from the players. Wel are not that great face it the Lions kicked our asses and were the better team on that day. I don't remember what I predicted like an 8-8 season or 9-7 because I don't see all the so called talent on this team.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

play2win
Senior Member

11 years ago

#45

Originally Posted by: DoddPower

The only reason I've mentioned McCarthy, is that he is the one who should be making these calls. One of our MAIN points of emphasis this offseason, was player availability. Only a fool continues making the same mistakes over and over, expecting different results = LOVAT. Same holds true for CAPERS, who has set All-Time records for ineptitude on his defenses, and CAMPEN, who has not coached up his OL to be complete players. Aaron Rodgers was the most sacked QB dating back to 2009, with 168 sacks 2009-2012. Add another 18 before he was lost Week 9 to the broken collar bone.

McCarthy owns the responsibility to address all three of those coaches, and the poor jobs they've turned in. It has yet to happen. What does that say to the rest of the team?

I just can't accept we are always one of the most injured teams in the NFL, with nothing done to address the issue. What does that say?

Defensively, I do think Capers was forced to make do with lesser talents at key positions. Same may be true for Campen. Those issues might fall equally on the GM, Ted Thompson. When key players go down, if the development isn't there with the backups, a replacement needs to be found. Imagine if we had signed a top OT in the offseason or made a trade prior to the deadline, when we knew Bulaga was out, Sherrod was out, and Newhouse was struggling, and Don Barclay still somewhat untested. No backup C. This sometimes makes me wonder if there is a communication breakdown between the coaching staff and Thompson.

Honestly, I am really hoping this staff can pull their team together. Seems to be asking for the Moon right now.

musccy
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#46

Originally Posted by: play2win

I'm quoting a part of your posts but commenting on the general premise. I've read through some of your posts and it seems like unless they're currently healthy AND in contention for the P.B. they're poorly developed. It's not that black and white.

Brett Goode and Tim Masthay aren't flashy, but have they not been good players for the team? Jarrett Bush has been a good special teamer. Teams need role players as well.

You write off injured players like Sherrod, Worthy, Cobb and Bulaga, but is that a function of improper development? Have those players not shown potential?

Bakhtiari, has been at least servicable considering the circumstances as a 4th round rookie. When healthy, Perry has shown flashes as well.

We all saw the potential in Finley towards the end of the '09 season, especially vs. AZ and since then he has (at times) lost focus and developed a case of the drops. Same with Crosby last year. Sometimes players need to be held accountable too.

My point is that it's not cut and dry, nor can you say only 7.5% of the roster has been adequately developed, there's no accurate basis for that determination.

steveishere
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#47

None of those players are top NFL performers. Collins was. Jennings was. Finley always had the potential. Is James Jones? I question that a bit. Raji? Daniels has potential. Lacy has potential.

My list could actually be paired down to Rodgers, Nelson, Sitton and Matthews. 4 of the NFL's best players at their positions. So, now we're talking 7.5%…

Daryn Colledge and Brad Jones flat out suck. Worthy, Raji, and Burnett are following close behind. Bulaga? Can't be great if you can't get out of the tub. James Jones and TJ Lang are good players who have done well for this team, but top NFL performers? Not sure about that.

Originally Posted by: play2win

If you applied that standard to every team then pretty much no NFL team has good players.

play2win
Senior Member

11 years ago

#48

Originally Posted by: musccy

Yeah, our Long Snapper and our Punter are both pretty good.

My bigger point is the "draft & develop" philosophy is a very big part of their program. I love Randall Cobb. I do think he would be considered a top talent if he were still playing today. I love the David Bakhtiari pick, and I think he has done a remarkable job for a rookie. Nick Perry is a really good player when healthy - like him a lot. I pretty much kept rookies out of my line of thinking as the sample is too small. Lacy and Hyde could turn into remarkable talents, from what we've seen through 12 games.

But, if they employ "draft & develop" as their sole means of talent acquisition, then they had better be damn good at developing the talent they draft and sign as UDFAs. I'm questioning the real development that we are seeing, or not seeing.

All of this is super interesting to me. I'm not saying one person is right or wrong. Just looking at the scenery and what has transpired. You are right that it is not as cut and dry as I may have intimated. I was just pointing out we have 4 players who would be considered top talents at their positions, through this draft and develop strategy. if this is indeed a great strategy, should we be expecting more? If we are not seeing more, then why? Is it the players Thompson is acquiring, or is there a lack of development on the coaching end?

Odd thought on this. Our WR and RB development seems pretty solid. CBs seem pretty good in general. DL and OL have been question marks. LB, kind of a question mark. S development has been an issue since Collins went down. TEs? eh. QBs? Boy, after Rodgers, there isn't much to speak of. STs? Our coverage has been atrocious, as has been our return game.

I do question accountability. Players and coaches alike. Haven't seen it, and I do find that a bit troubling as a fan. Just a bunch of lip service these past 4 seasons.

play2win
Senior Member

11 years ago

#49

If you applied that standard to every team then pretty much no NFL team has good players.

Originally Posted by: steveishere

I'm not talking about applying that as a standard. Just looking at what we are doing really with draft & develop.

For instance, don't you think we would have a DL make the list of top DL in the NFL, I mean, just make a list that runs 48 deep? Nope.

Kick Returners? Nope.

Punt Returners? Nope.

INTs? Nope.

RB? Lacy at #10

WR? Nelson at #17, Jones at #48 (And, that's without Rodgers since week 9)

I think from this it is pretty clear our D and STs Coordinators leave a little to be desired, and our WR and RB coaches are actually looking pretty damn good given the circumstances.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

11 years ago

#50

Originally Posted by: play2win

KR and PR was handled by Randall Cobb who did quite well.

INT's ... Packers have had the most INT's or right there at the top for several years ... this year being the exception.

RB ... Packers are a passing team ... they have that mediocre guy named Aaron Rodgers so ...

WR ... Come one ... the Packers have had probably half dozen WR that could start for any team in the NFL at either the 1 or 2.

Your expectations are unrealistic in the salary cap era. Wait and see how the Seahawks and 49ers do when they have to pay their QB's after their rookie contracts. lol

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Zero2Cool (2h) : Raiders hired someone from the elderly home.

dfosterf (4h) : I'm going with a combination of the two.

beast (6h) : Either the Cowboys have no idea what they're doing, or they're targeting their former OC, currently the Eagles OC

Zero2Cool (22h) : Fake news. Cowboys say no

Zero2Cool (23h) : Mystery candidate in the Cowboys head coaching search believed to be Packers ST Coordinator Rich Bisaccia.

beast (23-Jan) : Also why do both NYC teams have absolutely horrible OL for over a decade?

beast (23-Jan) : I wonder why the Jets always hire defensive coaches to be head coach

Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Still HC positions available out there. I wonder if Hafley pops up for one

Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Trent Baalke is out as the Jaguars GM.

dfosterf (22-Jan) : Jeff Hafley would have been a better choice, fortunately they don't know that. Someone will figure that out next off season

Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Aaron Glenn Planning To Take Jets HC Job

dfosterf (22-Jan) : Martha- C'est mon boulot! 😁

Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Thank you

wpr (22-Jan) : Z, glad you are feeling better.

wpr (22-Jan) : My son and D-I-L work for UM. It's a way to pick on them.

Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Thank you. I rarely get sick, and even more rarely sick to the point I can't work.

wpr (22-Jan) : Beast- back to yesterday, I CAN say OSU your have been Michigan IF the odds of making the playoffs were more urgent.

dfosterf (22-Jan) : Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.

Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : I've been near death ill last several days, finally feel less dead and site issues.

Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : It is a big deal. This host is having issues. It's frustrating.

Martha Careful (22-Jan) : just kidding...it was down

Martha Careful (22-Jan) : you were blocked yesterday, due to a a recalcitrant demeanor yesterday in the penalty box for a recalcitrant demeanor

dfosterf (22-Jan) : Was that site shutdown on your end or mine? No big deal, just curious

beast (21-Jan) : That way teams like Indiana and SMU don't make the conference championships by simply avoiding all the other good teams in their own confere

beast (21-Jan) : Also, with these "Super Conferences" instead of a single conference champion, have 4 teams make a Conference playoffs.

beast (21-Jan) : Also in college football, is a bye week a good or bad thing?

Martha Careful (21-Jan) : The tournament format was fine. Seeding could use some work.

beast (21-Jan) : You can't assume Ohio State would of won the Michigan game...

beast (21-Jan) : Rankings were 1) Oregon 2) Georgia 3) Texas 4) Penn State 5) Notre Dame 6) Ohio State, none of the rest mattered

wpr (21-Jan) : Texas, ND and OSU would have been fighting for the final 2 slots.

wpr (21-Jan) : Oregon and Georgia were locks. Without the luxury of extra playoff berths, Ohios St would have been more focused on Michigan game.

wpr (21-Jan) : Zero, no. If there were only 4 teams Ohio State would have been one of them. Boise St and ASU would not have been selected.

Zero2Cool (21-Jan) : So that was 7 vs 8, that means in BCS they never would made it?

Martha Careful (21-Jan) : A great game. Give ND credit for coming back, although I am please with the outcome.

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : FG to make it academic

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : and there's the dagger

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : ooooo 8 point game with 4 minutes to go!

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : ooooooooohhhhhh he missed!

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Ooooo that completion makes things VERY interesting

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Game not over yet

beast (21-Jan) : Oh yeah, Georgia starting quarterback season ending elbow injury

beast (21-Jan) : Sadly something happened to Georgia... they should be playing in this game against Ohio State

beast (21-Jan) : I thought Ohio State and Texas were both better than Notre Dame & Penn State

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Notre Lame getting rolled

Martha Careful (21-Jan) : Ohio State just got punched in the gut. Lets see how they respond

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Notre Lame vs the Luckeyes, bleh

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Oh snap!!!

Zero2Cool (21-Jan) : Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

Zero2Cool (21-Jan) : Nah, you see Lions OC leaving to be HC of Bears is directly related to Packers.

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : ohhhhhhh Zero is in TROUBLE

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