VinceLambeauStarr
11 years ago
Looking at the defensive personnel on the roster, combining them with our current scheme and analyzing the players we have -: My question to you fine folk is, how close do you think this unit to being one of the better defenses in the NFL. The type of defense that doesn't need to be the absolute best, but can be relied upon to get that vital stop, interception and have those games where they overwhelm a lackluster offense.

My overall conclusion is, that with the loss of two/three key contributors in the last few years (Woodson, Collins and Jenkins) the defense has lost some of their playmaking identity, and as such is sort of at a crossroads with who they are and what they aim to achieve.

I don’t think there needs to be wholesale changes, i.e. Kansas City’s recent restructure. I do think though, that across the board there needs to subtle changes, along with one seismic one.

First off, i'll get it out the way - I think Capers needs to go NOW. It would be a different story if all of the defensive unit were inept but that isn't the case. It just isn't working and having a random fantastic week followed by three mundane weeks just oozes complacency. Fresh impetus could fire this unit to play according to their ability.

Defensive Line - Probably the strongest unit of the whole defense. Versatile enough to adapt to another scheme and relatively young. I don't think major changes here would benefit anyone. Probably want a replacement for Pickett.

Linebackers - We need better depth both outside and inside.

Secondary - Desperately missing a star. Before his decline, Woodson was that guy. Before his injury, Collins was capable of sheer brilliance at times. Williams is declining by the game.

In closing, I am of the opinion that coaching changes, plus one true superstud would somewhat resolve the defense' struggles.

How about you all?

UserPostedImage 
Zero2Cool is my captain.
hardrocker950
11 years ago
I agree with this. Ever since Collins left - the secondary just hasn't been the same. Without Woodson, they have really slipped in coverage - if you can even call it "coverage." I really thought Tramon was going to be a big contributor, but as of late I don't see it. Some of the issues are the lack of talent at safety, but the schemes are just begging to be exploited. I rarely, actually never see them challenging receivers at the line - which would help slow down play development.

I think our DL and LBs are decent as far as our starters, and to a degree our backups. I believe a lot of the issues are the playcalling. I see little agression when they have 3rd and long - which is when the pressure needs to be strong. Rushing only 2-3 guys is not going to work when they are expecting a blitz - especially when it is always the same guys.

Capers being fired would not be a "knee jerk" move imo. The guy obviously is not willing to adjust the gameplan, nor is he going to change his playcalling to make up for the shortcomings in personnel. This is the definition of poor coaching and is unacceptable at the pro level. If I know better as a fan, then he HAS to know as a professional.
nerdmann
11 years ago

I agree with this. Ever since Collins left - the secondary just hasn't been the same. Without Woodson, they have really slipped in coverage - if you can even call it "coverage." I really thought Tramon was going to be a big contributor, but as of late I don't see it. Some of the issues are the lack of talent at safety, but the schemes are just begging to be exploited. I rarely, actually never see them challenging receivers at the line - which would help slow down play development.

I think our DL and LBs are decent as far as our starters, and to a degree our backups. I believe a lot of the issues are the playcalling. I see little agression when they have 3rd and long - which is when the pressure needs to be strong. Rushing only 2-3 guys is not going to work when they are expecting a blitz - especially when it is always the same guys.

Capers being fired would not be a "knee jerk" move imo. The guy obviously is not willing to adjust the gameplan, nor is he going to change his playcalling to make up for the shortcomings in personnel. This is the definition of poor coaching and is unacceptable at the pro level. If I know better as a fan, then he HAS to know as a professional.

Originally Posted by: hardrocker950 



They players are not in position. Plain and simple.

There are bad play calls on D too. But we can sit here and blame the players all we want. But who's teaching them? You never see Edgar Bennett's guys out of position. Why's that?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago
You got it all wrong.

Capers' schemes and blitz packages are keeping the Packers from giving up even more on defense. The personnel - basically everybody other than Matthews is pretty mediocre. The weakness didn't seem so glaring with Rodgers enabling the Packers to outscore teams, but the D basically is what it is, and we have Ted Thompson to thank/blame for that.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Laser Gunns
11 years ago

You got it all wrong.

Capers' schemes and blitz packages are keeping the Packers from giving up even more on defense. The personnel - basically everybody other than Matthews is pretty mediocre. The weakness didn't seem so glaring with Rodgers enabling the Packers to outscore teams, but the D basically is what it is, and we have Ted Thompson to thank/blame for that.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Can't believe it.. But I agree with TPB on something.

Our front 7 is making 1on1 blocking look the the great fucking wall. Nobody is winning those.





MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
nerdmann
11 years ago

Can't believe it.. But I agree with TPB on something.

Our front 7 is making 1on1 blocking look the the great f*cking wall. Nobody is winning those.



Originally Posted by: RajiRoar 



Bullshit.

We were what, 3rd in the league in rushing D until two weeks ago? Ted is a genius the way he stocks this team. What other team could even have half these injures and still have any hope whatsoever?

It's just for whatever reason, guys in the back are out of position and the guys in the front aren't on the field.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
play2win
11 years ago
Do the Packers put a waiver claim in for Ed Reed? I don't see how that could hurt. Doubt highly we would get him, but I would love to see that happen.

Having a better presence at S opposite Burnett would help immensely. Clearing up the Hayward issue would help too. Get someone who has a healthy set of legs under him in there. Hyde and House looked to be coming along very well together in our secondary prior to Hayward's attempted comeback.

As for Capers, I think looking for a change in that guard midseason is wishful thinking, and I am with you on it. I think a change would shake up this defense, and make them more accountable. I just don't think McCarthy works that way.

They have to do something though, because the attrition through injury at LB has adversely affected our options running the 3-4. We have a boatload of healthy, able DL, ready to play. A scheme switch to a 4-3 might help the D overall. CJ Wilson, Josh Boyd and Jerel Worthy have yet to see the field of play. Why not give them a go? Those are the things I would like to see changed now to get our D playing better.

If we do implement a scheme change, Capers might be just the guy to make it successful, so, I would hesitate to run him out of town. I'm hot and cold on that. Dom Capers is a highly accomplished DC. He didn't have the tools he needed up front the past couple of years. Now, he has them, IMO, but the back end of our D is in some flux. We still need that major upgrade at S, two seasons after the loss of Collins. Maybe the help comes in the form of Sean Richardson. Maybe Ed Reed...
hardrocker950
11 years ago

Do the Packers put a waiver claim in for Ed Reed? I don't see how that could hurt. Doubt highly we would get him, but I would love to see that happen.

Having a better presence at S opposite Burnett would help immensely. Clearing up the Hayward issue would help too. Get someone who has a healthy set of legs under him in there. Hyde and House looked to be coming along very well together in our secondary prior to Hayward's attempted comeback.

As for Capers, I think looking for a change in that guard midseason is wishful thinking, and I am with you on it. I think a change would shake up this defense, and make them more accountable. I just don't think McCarthy works that way.

They have to do something though, because the attrition through injury at LB has adversely affected our options running the 3-4. We have a boatload of healthy, able DL, ready to play. A scheme switch to a 4-3 might help the D overall. CJ Wilson, Josh Boyd and Jerel Worthy have yet to see the field of play. Why not give them a go? Those are the things I would like to see changed now to get our D playing better.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Ya, I saw that Houston let Reed go. I have to guess he has dropped off - I haven't really been following Houston, so I can only speculate. Although our safety personnel leaves a lot to be desired, I'm not sure he is what we need. Along with that, it would be shocking if Ted even considered a FA safety because...well - we are talking about TT. Ed is getting old in NFL years - so the only way I even see it as a possibility is a low end contract.
steveishere
11 years ago
I think it's highly questionable whether Ed Reed would be a "better" presence. It's not like Houston has some great prospects at that position that just bumped him off the roster. He got released because he's been bad.
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago
The good side of Ted Thompson is he doesn't grab a lot of has-beens. I don't think he goes after Reed, and I'm satisfied that way.

As for Capers schemes and the relative success against the run game early on, Capers ain't just about blitz packages; He is good at designing a D to stop whatever he sees as the primary threat. The problem is, without adequate personnel, that opens up something else.

What do you prefer, a bland D that doesn't stop much of anything - which basically is what we had before Capers? Or a chess game that may work out and shut down whatever the opponent does best or may flop and let lesser threats hit us hard? When we had Rodgers playing, this question wasn't all that critical - win 45-17 or win 45-31? Who cares, a win is a win. But without that high-powered O from Rodgers, it makes all the difference.

I'd still rather have what Capers gives us instead of what came before. And the WORST thing would be to fire him and keep the same D without his brains behind it.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (24m) : Doubs is out due to concussion
beast (2h) : What does the weather look like?
Martha Careful (6h) : You can wear long-johns mittens and a hat. We want Hill and their other skill guys FROZEN
Zero2Cool (10h) : I'm not sure I hope for that. I'll be at the game.
Martha Careful (25-Nov) : I hope it is colder than a well-diggers ass on Thanksgiving night.
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
beast (25-Nov) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
Mucky Tundra (25-Nov) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Bears. Vikings. OT
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Thems the breaks I guess
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
7m / Featured Content / Martha Careful

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / GameDay Threads / Zero2Cool

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.