DakotaT
13 years ago

(watching vikesrule and DakotaT outdoing each other in their rich-people-bashing)

6. America was great when it remembered that it's not about empowerment, it's about limiting power. When it recognized that government was not about justice and making lives better, merely a necessary evil to keep people from beating each other up and to ensure they kept their contractual promises. Now it's just another empire in decline waiting for its Suez to knock it out of its misery.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I'm sorry, but you believe in outdated concepts. This country has the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world. It costs money - what are we going to do, rely on the generosity of people to volunteer funds to finance it all? Just fucking asinine Wade - and I consider you a worldly thinker.
UserPostedImage
vikesrule
13 years ago

(watching vikesrule and DakotaT outdoing each other in their rich-people-bashing)

...But so is envy and its bastard stepchild, the modern sense of entitlement.

Originally Posted by: Wade 


Wade, what are your thoughts on "private college entitlements"? I am not being critical, just curious.


Since they are a "private institution", should it and the students receive tax-payer money from both the Federal and State governments?

Case in point...Luther college students pay on average:

The comprehensive fee for the 2011-12 academic year is $40,585. This breaks down as follows:

Tuition $34,735
Room $2,780
Board $3,070

Other costs to consider:
Estimated Books $1,040
Technology Fee (mandatory) $150



And even though it is a "private institution", many students receive:
Federal Pell Grants, Federal Supplemental Education Opportunity Grant, Iowa Tuition Grant and in some cases,
Federal Teacher Education Assistance for College and Higher Education (TEACH) Grants



And should said private institution be given (and is that an entitlement?) for example:

Luther College has been awarded an $85,979 grant from the Iowa Department of Natural Resources to replace the asphalt paving of an existing 24,600-square-foot parking on the Luther campus with a more environmentally beneficial permeable surface.

Tom Vilsack, U.S. Agriculture Secretary, has announced the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Rural Energy for America Program will award Luther College Wind Energy Project, LLC, a $500,000 grant

The U.S. Department of Education has awarded Luther College a grant totaling $1.5 million to fund the Student Support Services (SSS) program over the next five years.

Luther assistant professor of chemistry, has received a two-year Grow Iowa Values Fund (GIVF) research grant for $40,000 to support her research on a low-cost, effective detection method for chemical pollutants in water systems.






DakotaT
13 years ago
The worlds biggest dumbass, DakotaT, received a nice set of luggage from JCPenney for his high school graduation as his only entitlement. I live among some of the world's largest millionaire welfare cases which includes my boss, the governor. Nevertheless, I still believe if you are one of the lucky people qualifying to pay Federal Income Tax, you should do so without whining. Bleeding the turnips in our society does us absolutely no good.
UserPostedImage
vikesrule
13 years ago

The worlds biggest dumbass, DakotaT..

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 


I don't know DT, I believe that you and are ranked #1 and #2 respectively.... and we rotate positions in those rankings.

..I live among some of the world's largest millionaire welfare cases which includes my boss, the governor. Nevertheless, I still believe if you are one of the lucky people qualifying to pay Federal Income Tax, you should do so without whining. Bleeding the turnips in our society does us absolutely no good.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



And as much agreeing with you pains me greatly, I'm pretty much with you on that one.
Although I do not believe that I would have used the phrase "turnips":-"
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
thanks for trashing this post. You have not done enough of your pissing elsewhere have you?
In all your arguments you have not succeeded in convincing anyone of your opinion so why not just keep it up through another 50 topics.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
13 years ago

thanks for trashing this post. You have not done enough of your pissing elsewhere have you?
In all your arguments you have not succeeded in convincing anyone of your opinion so why not just keep it up through another 50 topics.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Hey, at least I'm consistent. Maybe if certain people actually put in the work to warrant the opinions they think they are entitled to or a part of, I'd listen to them more closely. Until then, a person needs to go a ways to impress or convince me otherwise.

I assumed you were addressing me.
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

Wade, what are your thoughts on "private college entitlements"? I am not being critical, just curious.


Originally Posted by: vikesrule 



It's a fair question.

I don't believe in them. Though I would consider the "research grant" and the subsidized student loan" a different kind of government payment than the others you described, I personally believe we'd be better off without government money in education across the board.

If the government feels it necessary to finance research, at least that is an "investment" in human capital rather than a simple transfer payment. Same with the student loans. So, if you were to ask me to list all government expenditures in order of their relative value, those two would probably be up there fairly high -- below national defense, basic police protection, courts to protect rights and enforce contracts, but above most of the other usual suspects.

But in the end, you're paying for that research and loan subsidy with tax dollars from someone. That means coercing someone's wealth from them and telling them to spend it in a way they would not do otherwise. Add in the bureaucratic costs of administering, and add in the reality that the grants process rewards being good at applying for funds as much or more than it rewards true innovation/groundbreaking discoveries/new ideas/etc., and frankly, I think we pay far too much in aggregate for the few academic stars and wonderful pushing-back-the-frontiers-of-knowledge that we manage to get.

Push billions of dollars at something and you'll get some gold medals. But each of those gold medals will give a ROI less than your average polluting relic purchased under the Cash For Clunkers program.

I do think your "private"/"public" dichotomy is a distinction badly drawn. All recipients of government payments, in the end, are private individuals. The fact that some of these private individuals are already government employees or already partially subsidized by tax dollars by virtue of their institution's "public school" status seems to me a difference in degree not in kind.

I think we're all equally unworthy of government handouts. If we think we have a good idea, we should push it in the marketplace of ideas. If we think we have a better way to educate 5-year-olds or 21-year-olds, we should push it in the marketplace of education. Wind turbines or parking lots or whatever aren't "sustainable" if they demand subsidy and coercion to take place.

Frankly, I think if you got rid of all the distortions to higher education wrought by government funding and our pursuit of them via tuition support, research in a hundred disciplines, grants for dozens of "good ideas" for social causes and improvements (see said wind turbine), we'd find that 40K comprehensive fee would probably be about 1/4 of what it is.

What do I think about private college entitlements as you call them?

Any politician who tries to tell me he's "pro-education" because he supports XYZ education "funding" and "grants"? He has just told me he probably isn't worth my vote.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

I'm sorry, but you believe in outdated concepts. This country has the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world. It costs money - what are we going to do, rely on the generosity of people to volunteer funds to finance it all? Just fucking asinine Wade - and I consider you a worldly thinker.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Sigh.

We have the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world because we have generated more wealth per person than any prior civilization. If you don't build wealth, you can't afford to build highways. If you don't built wealth, you can't afford to build art museums or let a quarter or more of your 16-25 year old population spend their time in school rather than working. And if you don't generate wealth, you can't pay to send Foster and his Marines to every continent in the world.

Wealth comes first. Wealth increases options.

Transfer payments do neither.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
13 years ago
I don't know Wade, you're making it awfully difficult to pull oneself up by his bootstraps in this purely capitalist marketplace dream of yours. There are no checks and balances in place. $50K a year to go to an average college - wealthy kid says thanks Dad for the tuition - BA in hand in 4 years; whereas the poor kid with no help works full time job to go to college part time for the same BA in 8 years. Wealthy kid has job waiting, doesn't even fill out a job application. Poor kid beats the streets for a couple years to find equal job. Six year head start for the cake eater.

Forget about socialism - this country is an Aristocracy. And all these occupiers are the kids left behind, and they're pissed off. It isn't going to get any better either. I guess the smart play would be to invest in the pepper spray companies.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
13 years ago

Sigh.

We have the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world because we have generated more wealth per person than any prior civilization. If you don't build wealth, you can't afford to build highways. If you don't built wealth, you can't afford to build art museums or let a quarter or more of your 16-25 year old population spend their time in school rather than working. And if you don't generate wealth, you can't pay to send Foster and his Marines to every continent in the world.

Wealth comes first. Wealth increases options.

Transfer payments do neither.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I guess that's why FDR had to start all the great projects to get us out of the Great Depression. He put the country back to work, which is what they should do now. But the right wing won't let that happen, cause, I don't know why.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (3h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (3h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (7h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (7h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (7h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (7h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!
wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.
beast (20-Dec) : As of tonight, 3 way tie for 2nd in Pick'em, that battle is interesting!
beast (20-Dec) : Lions vs Vikings could be the main last game as it could determine division winners or #1 vs #2 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Or if KC needs to win for the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Right now it looks like the only prime worthy games are Det-Minny and KC-Denver (if Denver can clinch a wild card spot)
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : The entirety of week 18 being listed as flex is weird
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Matt LaFleur today says unequivocally "Ted Thompson had nothing to do with the drafting of Jordan Love."
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Apparently, the editing is what pieces comments together. That Ted thing ... fake news.
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : LaFleur "opportunity that Ted Thompson thought was too good to pass up"
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Jordan Love pick was Ted Thompson's idea.
Mucky Tundra (19-Dec) : Kyle Shanahan on signing De'Vondre Campbell as a FA last offseason: “We obviously made a mistake.”
packerfanoutwest (19-Dec) : Alexander’s last season with GB
Martha Careful (18-Dec) : if I were a professional athlete, I would probably look to see who the agent is for Kirk Cousins and then use him
beast (18-Dec) : $100 million fully guaranteed Kirk Cousins gets benched for rookie
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : a lower case b
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : The real lie is how beast capitalized his name in his message while it's normally spelled with
packerfanoutwest (18-Dec) : haha that's a lie
beast (17-Dec) : Despite what lies other might tell, Beast didn't hate the Winter Warnings, it felt refreshing to Beast for some reason.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : whiteout uniforms in general are pretty lame and weak. NFL greed at it's worst
Martha Careful (17-Dec) : The Viking uniforms, the whiteout uniforms specifically absolutely suck
beast (17-Dec) : Thanks Zero2Cool, looks a lot better now
beast (17-Dec) : Seems like someone has a crush on me, can't stop talking about me
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : Should be gooder now. The forum default theme went to goofy land.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : What the hell
packerfanoutwest (17-Dec) : yeah beast hates the Winter Warning Unies
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Okay I'm glad to know it's not just something happening to me lol
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Zero, did you copy the Packers uniforms from last night and white out the board?
beast (16-Dec) : Oh crap, is the board going to the Winter Warning Uniforms too?!? It's all white on white right now!
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : WR Odell Beckham Jr is officially a free agent after clearing waivers.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Packers are 6th in sacks.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : RB David Montgomery will undergo season-ending knee surgery.
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Dan Campbell on onside kick with 12 minutes left: In hindsight, wish I didn’t do that
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : They have that whole 12th man thing so ...
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
11m / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

22-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / packerfanoutwest

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

19-Dec / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

17-Dec / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Dec / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Mucky Tundra

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.