DakotaT
13 years ago

(watching vikesrule and DakotaT outdoing each other in their rich-people-bashing)

6. America was great when it remembered that it's not about empowerment, it's about limiting power. When it recognized that government was not about justice and making lives better, merely a necessary evil to keep people from beating each other up and to ensure they kept their contractual promises. Now it's just another empire in decline waiting for its Suez to knock it out of its misery.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I'm sorry, but you believe in outdated concepts. This country has the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world. It costs money - what are we going to do, rely on the generosity of people to volunteer funds to finance it all? Just fucking asinine Wade - and I consider you a worldly thinker.
UserPostedImage
vikesrule
13 years ago

(watching vikesrule and DakotaT outdoing each other in their rich-people-bashing)

...But so is envy and its bastard stepchild, the modern sense of entitlement.

Originally Posted by: Wade 


Wade, what are your thoughts on "private college entitlements"? I am not being critical, just curious.


Since they are a "private institution", should it and the students receive tax-payer money from both the Federal and State governments?

Case in point...Luther college students pay on average:

The comprehensive fee for the 2011-12 academic year is $40,585. This breaks down as follows:

Tuition $34,735
Room $2,780
Board $3,070

Other costs to consider:
Estimated Books $1,040
Technology Fee (mandatory) $150



And even though it is a "private institution", many students receive:
Federal Pell Grants, Federal Supplemental Education Opportunity Grant, Iowa Tuition Grant and in some cases,
Federal Teacher Education Assistance for College and Higher Education (TEACH) Grants



And should said private institution be given (and is that an entitlement?) for example:

Luther College has been awarded an $85,979 grant from the Iowa Department of Natural Resources to replace the asphalt paving of an existing 24,600-square-foot parking on the Luther campus with a more environmentally beneficial permeable surface.

Tom Vilsack, U.S. Agriculture Secretary, has announced the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Rural Energy for America Program will award Luther College Wind Energy Project, LLC, a $500,000 grant

The U.S. Department of Education has awarded Luther College a grant totaling $1.5 million to fund the Student Support Services (SSS) program over the next five years.

Luther assistant professor of chemistry, has received a two-year Grow Iowa Values Fund (GIVF) research grant for $40,000 to support her research on a low-cost, effective detection method for chemical pollutants in water systems.






DakotaT
13 years ago
The worlds biggest dumbass, DakotaT, received a nice set of luggage from JCPenney for his high school graduation as his only entitlement. I live among some of the world's largest millionaire welfare cases which includes my boss, the governor. Nevertheless, I still believe if you are one of the lucky people qualifying to pay Federal Income Tax, you should do so without whining. Bleeding the turnips in our society does us absolutely no good.
UserPostedImage
vikesrule
13 years ago

The worlds biggest dumbass, DakotaT..

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 


I don't know DT, I believe that you and are ranked #1 and #2 respectively.... and we rotate positions in those rankings.

..I live among some of the world's largest millionaire welfare cases which includes my boss, the governor. Nevertheless, I still believe if you are one of the lucky people qualifying to pay Federal Income Tax, you should do so without whining. Bleeding the turnips in our society does us absolutely no good.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



And as much agreeing with you pains me greatly, I'm pretty much with you on that one.
Although I do not believe that I would have used the phrase "turnips":-"
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
thanks for trashing this post. You have not done enough of your pissing elsewhere have you?
In all your arguments you have not succeeded in convincing anyone of your opinion so why not just keep it up through another 50 topics.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
13 years ago

thanks for trashing this post. You have not done enough of your pissing elsewhere have you?
In all your arguments you have not succeeded in convincing anyone of your opinion so why not just keep it up through another 50 topics.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Hey, at least I'm consistent. Maybe if certain people actually put in the work to warrant the opinions they think they are entitled to or a part of, I'd listen to them more closely. Until then, a person needs to go a ways to impress or convince me otherwise.

I assumed you were addressing me.
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

Wade, what are your thoughts on "private college entitlements"? I am not being critical, just curious.


Originally Posted by: vikesrule 



It's a fair question.

I don't believe in them. Though I would consider the "research grant" and the subsidized student loan" a different kind of government payment than the others you described, I personally believe we'd be better off without government money in education across the board.

If the government feels it necessary to finance research, at least that is an "investment" in human capital rather than a simple transfer payment. Same with the student loans. So, if you were to ask me to list all government expenditures in order of their relative value, those two would probably be up there fairly high -- below national defense, basic police protection, courts to protect rights and enforce contracts, but above most of the other usual suspects.

But in the end, you're paying for that research and loan subsidy with tax dollars from someone. That means coercing someone's wealth from them and telling them to spend it in a way they would not do otherwise. Add in the bureaucratic costs of administering, and add in the reality that the grants process rewards being good at applying for funds as much or more than it rewards true innovation/groundbreaking discoveries/new ideas/etc., and frankly, I think we pay far too much in aggregate for the few academic stars and wonderful pushing-back-the-frontiers-of-knowledge that we manage to get.

Push billions of dollars at something and you'll get some gold medals. But each of those gold medals will give a ROI less than your average polluting relic purchased under the Cash For Clunkers program.

I do think your "private"/"public" dichotomy is a distinction badly drawn. All recipients of government payments, in the end, are private individuals. The fact that some of these private individuals are already government employees or already partially subsidized by tax dollars by virtue of their institution's "public school" status seems to me a difference in degree not in kind.

I think we're all equally unworthy of government handouts. If we think we have a good idea, we should push it in the marketplace of ideas. If we think we have a better way to educate 5-year-olds or 21-year-olds, we should push it in the marketplace of education. Wind turbines or parking lots or whatever aren't "sustainable" if they demand subsidy and coercion to take place.

Frankly, I think if you got rid of all the distortions to higher education wrought by government funding and our pursuit of them via tuition support, research in a hundred disciplines, grants for dozens of "good ideas" for social causes and improvements (see said wind turbine), we'd find that 40K comprehensive fee would probably be about 1/4 of what it is.

What do I think about private college entitlements as you call them?

Any politician who tries to tell me he's "pro-education" because he supports XYZ education "funding" and "grants"? He has just told me he probably isn't worth my vote.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

I'm sorry, but you believe in outdated concepts. This country has the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world. It costs money - what are we going to do, rely on the generosity of people to volunteer funds to finance it all? Just fucking asinine Wade - and I consider you a worldly thinker.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Sigh.

We have the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world because we have generated more wealth per person than any prior civilization. If you don't build wealth, you can't afford to build highways. If you don't built wealth, you can't afford to build art museums or let a quarter or more of your 16-25 year old population spend their time in school rather than working. And if you don't generate wealth, you can't pay to send Foster and his Marines to every continent in the world.

Wealth comes first. Wealth increases options.

Transfer payments do neither.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
13 years ago
I don't know Wade, you're making it awfully difficult to pull oneself up by his bootstraps in this purely capitalist marketplace dream of yours. There are no checks and balances in place. $50K a year to go to an average college - wealthy kid says thanks Dad for the tuition - BA in hand in 4 years; whereas the poor kid with no help works full time job to go to college part time for the same BA in 8 years. Wealthy kid has job waiting, doesn't even fill out a job application. Poor kid beats the streets for a couple years to find equal job. Six year head start for the cake eater.

Forget about socialism - this country is an Aristocracy. And all these occupiers are the kids left behind, and they're pissed off. It isn't going to get any better either. I guess the smart play would be to invest in the pepper spray companies.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
13 years ago

Sigh.

We have the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world because we have generated more wealth per person than any prior civilization. If you don't build wealth, you can't afford to build highways. If you don't built wealth, you can't afford to build art museums or let a quarter or more of your 16-25 year old population spend their time in school rather than working. And if you don't generate wealth, you can't pay to send Foster and his Marines to every continent in the world.

Wealth comes first. Wealth increases options.

Transfer payments do neither.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I guess that's why FDR had to start all the great projects to get us out of the Great Depression. He put the country back to work, which is what they should do now. But the right wing won't let that happen, cause, I don't know why.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (4h) : @AaronNagler · 2m Both Jordan Love and Malik Willis were Limited participants at Packers practice today.
Zero2Cool (7h) : Johnson didn't make it until 2020. Ring 2023. 🤷 Personally, he should have been in years prior to Hall.
Zero2Cool (7h) : HUMP DAY
beast (7h) : Guys that have a good shot at making the NFL Hall of Fame usually get into their teams pretty fast
beast (7h) : Yeah, but is Kampman and the others in the NFL Hall of Fame?
Zero2Cool (7h) : Johnson was Hall of Fame, 2020. Should haev been in Ring a year later, not three years.
Zero2Cool (7h) : I could be wrong there though
Zero2Cool (7h) : Guys like Kampman, Tim Harris, Al Harris, etc all over 15 years. Hall of Fame is 5 year wait
Zero2Cool (7h) : I guess I see players in Packers Hall come way later
beast (7h) : Yeah, usually teams hall of fames are a much lower bar than the NFL
Zero2Cool (7h) : is it uncommon for Hall before Ring?
Zero2Cool (8h) : S Xavier McKinney named first-team All-Pro by NFLPA
beast (9h) : I missed it, sorry, but he got into the NFL Hall of Fame years before that
Zero2Cool (9h) : Jones took his sweet ole time!
Zero2Cool (9h) : Yeah, he's in the ring of honor, just saw video and his name is up there
Zero2Cool (9h) : Didn't they have a thing in 2023 for Jimmy's ring of honor? I swear I saw it
beast (10h) : Though if they're legitimately trying to re-sign MM, then it makes sense.
beast (10h) : Jerry Jones still hasn't put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor, but he's in the NFL's Hall of Fame, Jones is petty
Mucky Tundra (21h) : Unless the Cowboys are planning an extension, seems kinda petty
beast (23h) : Cowboys denied Bears request
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : From what I'm reading, MM is under contract through the 14th of January; after that he's free game
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : McCarthy let go or not extended??
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Chicago Bears have asked the Dallas Cowboys permission to interview Mike McCarthy for head coaching vacancy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : The winners page that is
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I was not hoping for that. It messes up the page lol
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats beast on 2024 !
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats porky on winning 2023 pick'em! (oops sorry)
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Packers have $60M+ of 2025 cap space on paper TODAY.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Missed FG into a Lions TD; that'll do pig, that'll do
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : That might be it for the Vikings
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Oh so the refs do know what intentional grounding is
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : what the hell was that Goff?! Not much pressure and he just air mails it to Harrison
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : They really need to to get rid of the auto first down for illegal contact
Martha Careful (6-Jan) : watching the Vikings and Lions it's understandable why they swept the Packers. So much better product
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Even when GB got pressure he was throwing darts; vs no pressure on that last pass he just air mails an open guy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : didn't have guys in his face ... pressure makes difference
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Where was this Darnold vs GB?
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : BALL DON'T LIE
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : how was that not a safety? Goff throws it at an offensive lineman
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Zero, I thought that was a given! ;)
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Zero I looked through earlier and noticed the same thing. Bonkers year. I just wonder if beast put any money on games
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I'm hoping for BLOODBATH. Pummel one another.
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : 8 people in pick'em would have won any year with their total lol
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : I'm rooting for the Lions to lose.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : God help me but I'm rooting for the Vikings to...Vikings to...Christ I can't say it
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : 4 td for Rodgers
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Chiefs got shutout
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

21h / Around The NFL / beast

7-Jan / Fantasy Sports Talk / wpr

7-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

7-Jan / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

6-Jan / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

3-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.