DakotaT
13 years ago

(watching vikesrule and DakotaT outdoing each other in their rich-people-bashing)

6. America was great when it remembered that it's not about empowerment, it's about limiting power. When it recognized that government was not about justice and making lives better, merely a necessary evil to keep people from beating each other up and to ensure they kept their contractual promises. Now it's just another empire in decline waiting for its Suez to knock it out of its misery.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I'm sorry, but you believe in outdated concepts. This country has the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world. It costs money - what are we going to do, rely on the generosity of people to volunteer funds to finance it all? Just fucking asinine Wade - and I consider you a worldly thinker.
vikesrule
13 years ago

(watching vikesrule and DakotaT outdoing each other in their rich-people-bashing)

...But so is envy and its bastard stepchild, the modern sense of entitlement.

Originally Posted by: Wade 


Wade, what are your thoughts on "private college entitlements"? I am not being critical, just curious.


Since they are a "private institution", should it and the students receive tax-payer money from both the Federal and State governments?

Case in point...Luther college students pay on average:

The comprehensive fee for the 2011-12 academic year is $40,585. This breaks down as follows:

Tuition $34,735
Room $2,780
Board $3,070

Other costs to consider:
Estimated Books $1,040
Technology Fee (mandatory) $150



And even though it is a "private institution", many students receive:
Federal Pell Grants, Federal Supplemental Education Opportunity Grant, Iowa Tuition Grant and in some cases,
Federal Teacher Education Assistance for College and Higher Education (TEACH) Grants



And should said private institution be given (and is that an entitlement?) for example:

Luther College has been awarded an $85,979 grant from the Iowa Department of Natural Resources to replace the asphalt paving of an existing 24,600-square-foot parking on the Luther campus with a more environmentally beneficial permeable surface.

Tom Vilsack, U.S. Agriculture Secretary, has announced the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Rural Energy for America Program will award Luther College Wind Energy Project, LLC, a $500,000 grant

The U.S. Department of Education has awarded Luther College a grant totaling $1.5 million to fund the Student Support Services (SSS) program over the next five years.

Luther assistant professor of chemistry, has received a two-year Grow Iowa Values Fund (GIVF) research grant for $40,000 to support her research on a low-cost, effective detection method for chemical pollutants in water systems.






DakotaT
13 years ago
The worlds biggest dumbass, DakotaT, received a nice set of luggage from JCPenney for his high school graduation as his only entitlement. I live among some of the world's largest millionaire welfare cases which includes my boss, the governor. Nevertheless, I still believe if you are one of the lucky people qualifying to pay Federal Income Tax, you should do so without whining. Bleeding the turnips in our society does us absolutely no good.
vikesrule
13 years ago

The worlds biggest dumbass, DakotaT..

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 


I don't know DT, I believe that you and are ranked #1 and #2 respectively.... and we rotate positions in those rankings.

..I live among some of the world's largest millionaire welfare cases which includes my boss, the governor. Nevertheless, I still believe if you are one of the lucky people qualifying to pay Federal Income Tax, you should do so without whining. Bleeding the turnips in our society does us absolutely no good.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



And as much agreeing with you pains me greatly, I'm pretty much with you on that one.
Although I do not believe that I would have used the phrase "turnips":-"
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
thanks for trashing this post. You have not done enough of your pissing elsewhere have you?
In all your arguments you have not succeeded in convincing anyone of your opinion so why not just keep it up through another 50 topics.
DakotaT
13 years ago

thanks for trashing this post. You have not done enough of your pissing elsewhere have you?
In all your arguments you have not succeeded in convincing anyone of your opinion so why not just keep it up through another 50 topics.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Hey, at least I'm consistent. Maybe if certain people actually put in the work to warrant the opinions they think they are entitled to or a part of, I'd listen to them more closely. Until then, a person needs to go a ways to impress or convince me otherwise.

I assumed you were addressing me.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

Wade, what are your thoughts on "private college entitlements"? I am not being critical, just curious.


Originally Posted by: vikesrule 



It's a fair question.

I don't believe in them. Though I would consider the "research grant" and the subsidized student loan" a different kind of government payment than the others you described, I personally believe we'd be better off without government money in education across the board.

If the government feels it necessary to finance research, at least that is an "investment" in human capital rather than a simple transfer payment. Same with the student loans. So, if you were to ask me to list all government expenditures in order of their relative value, those two would probably be up there fairly high -- below national defense, basic police protection, courts to protect rights and enforce contracts, but above most of the other usual suspects.

But in the end, you're paying for that research and loan subsidy with tax dollars from someone. That means coercing someone's wealth from them and telling them to spend it in a way they would not do otherwise. Add in the bureaucratic costs of administering, and add in the reality that the grants process rewards being good at applying for funds as much or more than it rewards true innovation/groundbreaking discoveries/new ideas/etc., and frankly, I think we pay far too much in aggregate for the few academic stars and wonderful pushing-back-the-frontiers-of-knowledge that we manage to get.

Push billions of dollars at something and you'll get some gold medals. But each of those gold medals will give a ROI less than your average polluting relic purchased under the Cash For Clunkers program.

I do think your "private"/"public" dichotomy is a distinction badly drawn. All recipients of government payments, in the end, are private individuals. The fact that some of these private individuals are already government employees or already partially subsidized by tax dollars by virtue of their institution's "public school" status seems to me a difference in degree not in kind.

I think we're all equally unworthy of government handouts. If we think we have a good idea, we should push it in the marketplace of ideas. If we think we have a better way to educate 5-year-olds or 21-year-olds, we should push it in the marketplace of education. Wind turbines or parking lots or whatever aren't "sustainable" if they demand subsidy and coercion to take place.

Frankly, I think if you got rid of all the distortions to higher education wrought by government funding and our pursuit of them via tuition support, research in a hundred disciplines, grants for dozens of "good ideas" for social causes and improvements (see said wind turbine), we'd find that 40K comprehensive fee would probably be about 1/4 of what it is.

What do I think about private college entitlements as you call them?

Any politician who tries to tell me he's "pro-education" because he supports XYZ education "funding" and "grants"? He has just told me he probably isn't worth my vote.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

I'm sorry, but you believe in outdated concepts. This country has the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world. It costs money - what are we going to do, rely on the generosity of people to volunteer funds to finance it all? Just fucking asinine Wade - and I consider you a worldly thinker.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Sigh.

We have the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world because we have generated more wealth per person than any prior civilization. If you don't build wealth, you can't afford to build highways. If you don't built wealth, you can't afford to build art museums or let a quarter or more of your 16-25 year old population spend their time in school rather than working. And if you don't generate wealth, you can't pay to send Foster and his Marines to every continent in the world.

Wealth comes first. Wealth increases options.

Transfer payments do neither.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
13 years ago
I don't know Wade, you're making it awfully difficult to pull oneself up by his bootstraps in this purely capitalist marketplace dream of yours. There are no checks and balances in place. $50K a year to go to an average college - wealthy kid says thanks Dad for the tuition - BA in hand in 4 years; whereas the poor kid with no help works full time job to go to college part time for the same BA in 8 years. Wealthy kid has job waiting, doesn't even fill out a job application. Poor kid beats the streets for a couple years to find equal job. Six year head start for the cake eater.

Forget about socialism - this country is an Aristocracy. And all these occupiers are the kids left behind, and they're pissed off. It isn't going to get any better either. I guess the smart play would be to invest in the pepper spray companies.
DakotaT
13 years ago

Sigh.

We have the greatest infrastructure, civilization, and military in the history of the world because we have generated more wealth per person than any prior civilization. If you don't build wealth, you can't afford to build highways. If you don't built wealth, you can't afford to build art museums or let a quarter or more of your 16-25 year old population spend their time in school rather than working. And if you don't generate wealth, you can't pay to send Foster and his Marines to every continent in the world.

Wealth comes first. Wealth increases options.

Transfer payments do neither.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I guess that's why FDR had to start all the great projects to get us out of the Great Depression. He put the country back to work, which is what they should do now. But the right wing won't let that happen, cause, I don't know why.
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