Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago
BTW.. I am waiting for the backlash to begin for Rodgers giving input on roster moves.. [palm] [sarcasm]
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Stevetarded
14 years ago
Nobody is crushing Jones for "A" drop. If he only dropped 1 TD all year do you really think anybody would be saying shit about him dropping TDs? No, probably not.

Jones has a 10% drop rate from his time in GB I'm assuming that's pretty high. He's seems like he's been pretty consistent at being inconsistent. If GB thinks he's worth a big contract that's fine (they obviously know better than me) but my opinion is he doesn't really produce enough when he's not dropping balls to justify "starter money". Maybe they think they can fix him though so who knows.

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Stevetarded
14 years ago
No, we shouldn't treat all players the same because they aren't. While Jennings may drop a pass here and there he makes up for it by doing things like being top 3 in the entire NFL in 20+ yard plays. If a player is a fringe starter and is prone to mistakes he obviously will not have the leeway for such mistakes as a player who is one of the best at his position in the league.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago

Nobody is crushing Jones for "A" drop. If he only dropped 1 TD all year do you really think anybody would be saying shit about him dropping TDs? No, probably not.

Jones has a 10% drop rate from his time in GB I'm assuming that's pretty high. He's seems like he's been pretty consistent at being inconsistent. If GB thinks he's worth a big contract that's fine (they obviously know better than me) but my opinion is he doesn't really produce enough when he's not dropping balls to justify "starter money". Maybe they think they can fix him though so who knows.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 



10 %?

Here is an article busting that number from last season.. I will try and dig further upon it.

Listen.. I am not saying he doesn't need to improve.. I just didn't see him as being alone in the issues last season.


http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/which_wideouts_had_the_worst_hands_in_2010/4335487?linksrc=foxrg_nfl 

Certain players take a lot of criticism for dropped passes. James Jones was one of those guys in 2010, especially after he missed an opportunity for a huge gainer in Super Bowl XLV.

The Packers have to decide what to do with Jones this offseason. There was a report that they didn’t offer him a restricted free agent tender, but he says they did. This got me thinking — just how bad were Jones’ drops this year?

The number of passes that a WR drops is not a stat that is widely available. I found this table over at the Washington Post, which allowed me to calculate each player’s drops as a percentage of their targets:


Player 	Tm 	Drops 	Targets 	Drop% 	Rec%
Aaron Hernandez 	NE 	7 	64 	10.9% 	70.3%
Brandon Tate 	NE 	5 	46 	10.9% 	52.2%
Steve Smith 	Car 	8 	75 	10.7% 	64.0%
Wes Welker 	NE 	13 	123 	10.6% 	69.9%
Bo Scaife 	Ten 	5 	49 	10.2% 	73.5%
Brent Celek 	Phi 	8 	79 	10.1% 	53.2%
Devin Hester 	Chi 	7 	73 	9.6% 	54.8%
Jerricho Cotchery 	NYJ 	8 	85 	9.4% 	48.2%
Jacoby Ford 	Oak 	5 	54 	9.3% 	46.3%
Brandon LaFell 	Car 	7 	76 	9.2% 	50.0%
Brandon Gibson 	StL 	8 	91 	8.8% 	58.2%
Kevin Boss 	NYG 	6 	70 	8.6% 	50.0%
Miles Austin 	Dal 	10 	119 	8.4% 	58.0%
Donald Driver 	GB 	7 	86 	8.1% 	59.3%
Steve Breaston 	Ari 	7 	87 	8.0% 	54.0%
Randy Moss 	Ten 	5 	63 	7.9% 	44.4%
Terrell Owens 	Cin 	11 	139 	7.9% 	51.8%
Pierre Garcon 	Ind 	9 	117 	7.7% 	57.3%
Brandon Marshall 	Mia 	11 	146 	7.5% 	58.9%
Owen Daniels 	Hou 	5 	68 	7.4% 	55.9%
Brandon Pettigrew 	Det 	8 	110 	7.3% 	64.5%
Michael Crabtree 	SF 	7 	101 	6.9% 	54.5%
Dustin Keller 	NYJ 	7 	101 	6.9% 	54.5%
James Jones 	GB 	6 	87 	6.9% 	57.5%
Reggie Wayne 	Ind 	12 	175 	6.9% 	63.4%
Danny Amendola 	StL 	8 	123 	6.5% 	69.1%
Chad Ochocinco 	Cin 	8 	124 	6.5% 	54.0%
Hines Ward 	Pit 	6 	93 	6.5% 	63.4%
Tony Gonzalez 	Atl 	7 	109 	6.4% 	64.2%
Mike Williams 	TB 	7 	110 	6.4% 	59.1%
DeSean Jackson 	Phi 	6 	95 	6.3% 	49.5%
Johnny Knox 	Chi 	6 	97 	6.2% 	52.6%
Jermaine Gresham 	Cin 	5 	81 	6.2% 	64.2%
Mike Wallace 	Pit 	6 	98 	6.1% 	61.2%
Steve Johnson 	Buf 	8 	142 	5.6% 	57.7%
Zach Miller 	Oak 	5 	92 	5.4% 	65.2%
Jeremy Maclin 	Phi 	6 	113 	5.3% 	61.9%
Santonio Holmes 	NYJ 	5 	95 	5.3% 	54.7%
Andre Johnson 	Hou 	7 	136 	5.1% 	63.2%
Hakeem Nicks 	NYG 	6 	128 	4.7% 	61.7%
Marques Colston 	NO 	6 	130 	4.6% 	64.6%
Dwayne Bowe 	KC 	6 	131 	4.6% 	55.0%
Calvin Johnson 	Det 	6 	137 	4.4% 	56.2%
Santana Moss 	Was 	6 	145 	4.1% 	64.1%
Roddy White 	Atl 	6 	177 	3.4% 	65.0%

While this is not a list that a player wants to be on at all, Jones wasn’t terrible this year in terms of drop %. He fared as well as Reggie Wayne, and wasn’t even the biggest butterfingers on his own team. The normally sure-handed Donald Driver (8.1%) earned that title.

I’ve always liked Jones and thought he would eventually take over for Driver once he retired. That role may now go to Jordy Nelson, but there’s no doubt that Jones can be a productive receiver in Green Bay’s offense with Aaron Rodgers throwing to him. He has good strength and quickness and is able to get open, which is why his drops probably seem worse than they are. And with his reputation not reflective of his actual performance, the Packers may be able to get him at a discount this offseason.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Stevetarded
14 years ago
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/125993363.html 

"McCarthy still thinks James Jones can become consistent even though he has dropped 30 of 285 targeted passes (10.5%) in four seasons. Now it's up to Jones."

Your chart only refers to last season so last year was an "improved" year as far as dropping passes. That pretty much outlines his inconsistency so far in his career.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago
Additionally.. where is the praise for some of the clutch catches he has made over the season.. thinking Atlanta and blowing the game wide open.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/125993363.html

"McCarthy still thinks James Jones can become consistent even though he has dropped 30 of 285 targeted passes (10.5%) in four seasons. Now it's up to Jones."

Your chart only refers to last season so last year was an "improved" year as far as dropping passes. That pretty much outlines his inconsistency so far in his career.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 



Fair enough.. so can we go back and tag Jennings for his high drops in 09? Or do with hold with that only "one" big drop? Seems that you are being selective.. additionally don't forget year three is generally the "click" year for a reciever.

We can't expect continued improvement as he matures, being that he is only in his mid 20's?

More numbers from last season.. puts him ahead of some of the best in the game in Charles Johnson and Fitzgerald. Legit #1's... albeit quality of QB play should be counted in. Still better than Holmes and Edwards with the Jets for example.

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?year=2010&pos=WR&season=reg   JonesCatchPercent2010.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
all_about_da_packers
14 years ago

That is all.. Jones is a productive player overall. And to say that one player was being

thrown away from in this offense in a small sample size isn't prudent IMO.. from game to game they singled out matchups and attacked them across the season. Ebb and flow of the offense verse the defense and weakness against the coverage.. IMO.. the beauty of the offense.




I agree with you 93z.

Frankly, people have extremely short memories. Yes Jones' drops against the Eagles and Steelers, for example, were likely to be touchdowns. He's also made some pretty impressive catches - check out the TD he scored against the Pats and the back shoulder fade he had lat in the fourth Q. of the superbowl to keep a scoring drive going. That's not to say Jones can't get better at reducing drops, but some people think he is disposable, and I'm not so sure...

Jones often occupies the outside receiver positions in 3 and 4 WR sets. That's a tough job, because you're not getting as free a release as you would if you played the slot, and often the outside guys become decoys to attract coverage so the slot guys (see Jennings, Finley) can get more space to operate.

Jones has shown pretty impressive separation and use of his body while being asked to play outside WR. I'll say it again (and please do go look at the video of the past season who is critical of Jones ability to be a top wideout) that if you focus on Jones' play, you'll be quite surprised. He gets separation against some pretty fast CBs. He is almost always in position to make a play on the ball. He is built big and uses his body well.

On this team, where you have Jennings, Finley and potentially Cobb to play out of the slot, you need guys who can function on the top. Jones can do that. IMO the biggest issue, however, isn't that Jones is going to be a free agent who is going to command more money - realistically, there are other bigger name receivers in the market that will prevent Jones from getting a contract that is ridiculously overpriced, IMO - it's that there may not be space for him on this roster. Jennings is the star of the group, and as last year showed you have to highlight him (please do not forget him, McCarthy, like the first few games of the season). Finley has all the tools to dominate. Jordy had a coming out party in the Superbowl, you figure he will get more snaps. Cobb adds versatility that no other player does. Quarless and DJ Williams both have skills that play to the passing game. And you expect Driver will be itching to prove to some people that he can still be productive.

That's a pretty crowded mix at receiver. I would love to have Jones back - he comes off pretty impressive in film that you think he would make a good starter - but I'm not sure if there is space on this team to feature Jones. I'm not sure Jones is going to be itching to come back into that crowded of a mix, and frankly it may be that the Packers don't have room for Jones to return.

I'm not sure if I'd agree with A-Rod that Jones is priority #1 - I'd say it's getting Jenkins back - but I'd definitely love to re-sign Jones.

Oh, and get Nnamdi Asomugha. A backfield of Tramon, C-Wood, and Nnamdi? With Collins as Safety? *drools*
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
I am not trying to directly compare them.. but lets look back a bit.. Jones doesn't seem to have numbers in 2008 or 2009..

2008
Jennings 58.0


Jennings had a catch rate of 55.9 in 2008.. his 4th year.

2007..

Jones 61.0
Jennings 60.2

Jennings in 2006

49.5
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Yerko
14 years ago
Jones is a big part of this offense and becomes a bigger part of the offense when you think about the possible decline of Driver again and Finley not making it an entire season. I have gone back and forth on who I think is the #1 FA the Packers need to resign (Jenkins/Jones) and I always come back to thinking about how much better our offense is with him, whether Finley and Driver are on the field or not.

You have to think about Driver's age and possibility of injury when thinking about resigning Jones. I think it just makes it that much more important to get him a contract. Guess we will soon enough...
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