Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Iirc, Holmgren traded Ahman Green for Fred Vinson (LOL) because Green was viewed as a fumbler. Uncle Mike does NOT tolerate putting the rock on the ground. Green also had that one season where Ted Thompson dumped Wahle and Rivera. Although in fairness, you should also calculate that he HAD two awesome guards for all those years as well. That should factor in.
Overall though, I just loved Green's combination of speed and power. He had vision too. AND was a receiving threat.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



If having a good offensive line 'should' factor in, where does that put Emmitt Smith?
UserPostedImage
vikesrule
14 years ago

.... where does that put Emmitt Smith?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Above Barry Sanders, that's for sure.



zombieslayer summed up the Ahman Green case very well...Packers Hall of Fame - Yes....NFL Hall of Fame - No.


And Rockmolder, my young Dutch cheesehead amigo, you're original "critique" of AP has me thinking that your wooden shoes might be a little too tight.


Rockmolder
14 years ago

Above Barry Sanders, that's for sure.



zombieslayer summed up the Ahman Green case very well...Packers Hall of Fame - Yes....NFL Hall of Fame - No.


And Rockmolder, my young Dutch cheesehead amigo, you're original "critique" of AP has me thinking that your wooden shoes might be a little too tight.


Originally Posted by: vikesrule 



Yeah, I came back on that. And it wasn't as much critique as it was defining an elite season. Best RB in the league right now...
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Above Barry Sanders, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by: vikesrule 



You're getting overtly predictable in your decrepit age. 😉
UserPostedImage
zombieslayer
14 years ago



And while the if excuses are a bit weak, had he started running the ball in Seattle when he got drafted, had he been a higher draft pick who "has to produce right away", had he been the starter in GB immediatly, had he been handed the ball a little more etc. etc. we would've been talking about when he'd be inshrined into the HoF, rather than if he should be.

The skill was there. Easily.

Next to that, the Paul Hornung being one of the best RBs in Packers history and then pointing to how much he scored seems a little unrelated.

I mean, rushing for 13 TDs and catching 2 is quite impressive by itsself (90 points), but let's be honest, 15 field goals and 41 extra points (86 points) don't really count toward being a great RB.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



Paul Hornung has done something that Ahman Green never did - lead the NFL in a significant rushing statistic. I said you judge by your peers. For example, nowadays it's common place to throw for 4k yards. I remember the days when 4k yards was absolutely awesome.

Paul Hornung led the NFL in rushing TDs. Green never did. Hornung led the NFL in total TDs. Green never did. Hornung has 2 All Pros. Green has 0.

Compared to his peers, Hornung was a more dominant player. Facts are facts. And Hornung wasn't even the #1 rusher on his team most of his career. AND, he played against Jim Brown, who is arguably the best RB to ever play the game.

Hey, I'd be stoked if Green makes the Hall of Fame. I'll also be stoked if I woke up one day and had a really long tongue. Neither are going to happen.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
The_Claymaker
14 years ago

Dear lord, you guys are Emmitt Smith fans, aren't you?

Ok, AP was a stretch. Went with him without doing proper research. Having 4.4 as your lowest average and 4.6 in a season where he got force-fed the ball is just simply amazing.

LDT, on the other hand, is getting way too much credit.

What makes this season; 339 carries, 1335 yards, 3.9 avg, 17 TDs, better than; 259 carries, 1163 yards, 4.5 avg, 7 TDs...? That Ahman got force-fed the ball less, especially at the goalline? Because that first season was an All-pro season by LDT, Ahman didn't get that recognition.

Now, I get that you have to put up some stats, but 259 carries is a good enough sample to see one's skill. And to see that he was bouncing, spinning and balancing through tackles, while LDT was running into a wall on half of his runs.

I prefer Jamaal Charles over Arian Foster and I prefer Gale Sayers over Emmitt Smith.

And while the if excuses are a bit weak, had he started running the ball in Seattle when he got drafted, had he been a higher draft pick who "has to produce right away", had he been the starter in GB immediatly, had he been handed the ball a little more etc. etc. we would've been talking about when he'd be inshrined into the HoF, rather than if he should be.

The skill was there. Easily.

Next to that, the Paul Hornung being one of the best RBs in Packers history and then pointing to how much he scored seems a little unrelated.

I mean, rushing for 13 TDs and catching 2 is quite impressive by itsself (90 points), but let's be honest, 15 field goals and 41 extra points (86 points) don't really count toward being a great RB.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



LT still did it better and longer. You just nit-picked one of LT's lowest YPC seasons. LT ran for 1,100 yards and 10 TD's 8 straight years. Sure LT got the ball a bit more, for a longer period of time, and had a slightly lower YPC over his career, but you can't just dismiss the higher yards and significantly higher rushing TD's as him getting force fed the ball.

As you said yourself the if excuse is extremely weak. I would say Arian Foster's season last year was slightly better than Charles', but Charles high YPC was pretty insane. That being said I don't necessarily see Foster as a better back than Charles, and I would like to see him have a repeat strong performance. Sayers and Emmitt are from different era's and played on different teams. Emmitt benefited from play with a HOF QB, WR, and a good O-Line. Obviously statistically Emmit blows Sayers out of the water, but generally offensive statistics have gone up as time has progressed in the NFL (both due to more games, and changing of the game). Additionally comparing I think comparing Ahman to Gale Sayers is a stretch.
zombieslayer
14 years ago

LT still did it better and longer. You just nit-picked one of LT's lowest YPC seasons. LT ran for 1,100 yards and 10 TD's 8 straight years. Sure LT got the ball a bit more, for a longer period of time, and had a slightly lower YPC over his career, but you can't just dismiss the higher yards and significantly higher rushing TD's as him getting force fed the ball.

As you said yourself the if excuse is extremely weak. I would say Arian Foster's season last year was slightly better than Charles', but Charles high YPC was pretty insane. That being said I don't necessarily see Foster as a better back than Charles, and I would like to see him have a repeat strong performance. Sayers and Emmitt are from different era's and played on different teams. Emmitt benefited from play with a HOF QB, WR, and a good O-Line. Obviously statistically Emmit blows Sayers out of the water, but generally offensive statistics have gone up as time has progressed in the NFL (both due to more games, and changing of the game). Additionally comparing I think comparing Ahman to Gale Sayers is a stretch.

Originally Posted by: The_Claymaker 



Thus is why I compare to peers. Sayers was an All-Pro 4 times vs 0 for Green. Sayers TWICE led the NFL in rushing yards compared to Green's best season only getting #3. Sayers was #2 and #3 in rushing yards as well. Sayers was #1 in total TDs in '65 with 22, which is pretty impressive considering they only played 14 games. Sayers even led the NFL in total points scored one year.

3 consecutive years, Gale Sayers led the NFL in All-Purpose Yards.

This is a very bad comparison. Sayers is so much better than Green that it's making me feel bad typing this as I'm a big fan of Green. Rock, you're ruining my mood. 😠

As for LDT, it wasn't just a long career of lots of total stats like Art Monk. LDT was the BEST RB in the NFL several years in his career. 3 times, he was an All-Pro. Twice he led the NFL in rushing yards. 3 times he led the NFL in rushing TDs. He even broke Paul Hornung's total points in a season record (although Hornung set his in 14 games and would still own that record if it was a 14-game season).

On top of being an elite RB, LDT is also one of the most accurate passers ever. He's got 7 TD passes vs 0 INTs in his career for a 146.9 career rating. Damn.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Fan Shout
beast (5h) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.
beast (5h) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time
Mucky Tundra (10h) : *had to be IRed at 53
Mucky Tundra (10h) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before
beast (11h) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season
beast (11h) : But the Packers would have to use one for their return from IR spots on him, when they cut down to 53.
beast (11h) : I think the NFL recently changed the IR rules, so maybe the season might not be over for OL Glover.
Zero2Cool (11h) : Packers star Howton, first NFLPA prez, dies at 95 😔
dfosterf (15h) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress
dfosterf (15h) : Zero- Did you see what I posted about Voice of Reason and his wife? She posted over at fleaflicker that they are both "In"
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Well, not crazy, it makes sense. Crazy I didn't notice/find it earlier
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : it's crazy how one stored procedure to get data bogged everything down for speed here
dfosterf (7-Aug) : to herd cats or goldfish without a bowl. They reminded me of the annual assembly of our fantasy league
dfosterf (7-Aug) : out on a field trip, outfitting them with little yellow smocks. Most of the little folk were well behaved, but several were like trying
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Yesterday my wife and I spent the afternoon on the waterfront here in Alexandria, Va. A daycare company took about 15 three/four year olds
wpr (7-Aug) : seems faster. yay
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Wife of reason posted on the in/out thread on fleaflicker that both she and vor are in
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : This page was generated in 0.135 seconds.
Mucky Tundra (7-Aug) : Tbh, I can never tell the difference in speed unless it's completely shitting the bed
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Sure does feel like site is more snappy
Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : I thought that was the Lions OL
Mucky Tundra (6-Aug) : Travis Glover placed on IR; seasons over for him
Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : found bad sql in database, maybe site faster now?
dfosterf (5-Aug) : I'm going to call that a good move.
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Packers sign CB Corey Ballentine
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : I'm not sure how to kill the draft order just yet so it's not so confusing.
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : *to be able
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : and because it's not a dynasty league (which makes a lot more sense to be ability to trade picks)
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Oh I know; I was just exploring and it blew my mind that you could trade picks because of the whole reordering thing
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Zero, I think I preferred my offer: your 1st for my 15th rounder
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Keep in mind, we do a draft reorder once all members locked in
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : You can have my 12th Rd for your 2nd round
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Hey i didn't know we could trade picks in fantasy
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Update: Rock has tried a cheese curd, promises it's not his last
Zero2Cool (3-Aug) : watch it!! lol
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : you're right, we never did leave, the site just went down :P
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Rock claims to have never eaten a cheese curd
Zero2Cool (3-Aug) : We did not leave.
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Family Night! WE ARE SO BACK!
Mucky Tundra (2-Aug) : To this day, I'm still miffed about his 4 TD game against Dallas on Thanksgiving going to waste
Martha Careful (2-Aug) : Congratulations Sterling Sharpe. He was terrific and I loved watching him play.
beast (2-Aug) : I believe it's technically against the CBA rules, but Jerry just calls it a simple unofficial chat... and somehow gets away with it.
beast (2-Aug) : Jerry Jones is infamous for ̶n̶e̶g̶o̶t̶i̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ chatting with players one on one... and going around the agent.
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Oo just saw a blurb saying that Dallas negotiated directly with Parsons and not through his agent
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : I assumed that both guys will get paid, just a matter of when or how we get there
Zero2Cool (1-Aug) : McLaurin nor Micah going anywhere. They will get money
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : the Synder years or do they take care of one of their own?
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Do the Commanders risk losing a top WR with an emerging QB just because he's turning 30 and potentially risk damaging the rebuild from
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Turns 30 this September, plays at a high level and Washington has some cap space I believe
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : More interesting is Washington with Terry McLaurin
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

14h / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

16h / Fantasy Sports Talk / packerfanoutwest

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

7-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

3-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

3-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

3-Aug / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

2-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

2-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

28-Jul / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.