Contrary to popular believe, the rich (ultra rich as some of you would put it) don't have an agenda to keep the middle class down. If ya'll want to believe that.. That's fine, just know it's not the truth.

Strip the wealthy of their cash (most of which is hard earned) and you strip everything that America stands for.

Oh, and ya'll forgot to mention how the Tea partiers and GOP want to control their women like in the 18th century too. You all are a bunch of fuckin' pussies. You too VR

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How freaking hard is it to walk through the 'constitution' of both parties.. keep the good and ditch the political nonsense of both.. and come up with more of a balanced focus in which this country should operate.

That isn't ditching services like SS and medicaid.. and it isn't forgetting to protect our borders or abandon the infrastructure of this fine country.

It is however cleaning up the fat in these functions of government and holding those that can but do want to contribute to the good of the country accountable. Both the leaches at the bottom that are refuse to work but are able and the folks at the top that pay a fraction of the percent of their income.

I know that is a simplistic overview and look.. but the general concept is that this country can and should be able to take care of those in dire need, those that have served this country well through their productive years and still maintain our defenses and infrastructure.

Our society was built on the notion that we will have a certain tax levy placed upon each citizen, but that it will be fair, balanced and self sustaining in nature.

Instead of trying to squeeze out the services to those in need.. how about reforming the systems and kicking people off that truly should be able to fend for themselves. How about cleaning up the corruption at almost every level of government and service in the nation. How about removing the fat places in every bill to serve some special interest group or lobbyist on the hill.

I think if this country could place a non corrupt government in place of what we have.. we would find that it is obtainable and probably realistic to be the America we envision instead of the greed infested backbiting and argumentative nation that we seem to be.

My point.. the amount of waste and corruption in the process more than likely makes the cost of the actual services that the government should provide look like peanuts.

Instead we the people spend more time on infighting over the two corrupt parties than solving the problems.

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Wow. Besides blindly believing the run is more important than it really is, Pack93z is a pretty smart fellow.

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Actually, it wasn't.

That required a constitutional amendment ... in 1913.

Prior to that, the taxation of citizens in the modern way of income taxation was primarily for "emergencies" only (e.g, the Civil War).

The more usual manners of taxation were (i) taxation on property ownership, and (ii) taxation on foreigners (a/k/a tariffs). The first, IIRC, was in the USA originally a Hamilton idea, and one much opposed until compulsory education got pushed through and had to somehow be paid for.

The latter? Well, the idea is still alive and well, alas. It's a primary tenet of mercantilism, which has a long and ignoble and wrongheaded history far worse than communism and socialism combined.

Taxes of all sorts (lets not forget the sales tax, which was the invention of some corrupt Roman caesar-type) are, of course, as old as human society.

But among the ideas that set the Great American Experiment apart was a radical notion about taxation. A notion that, yes, was made most vociferously and physically by the original Tea Partiers. The notion that taxation was not a duty of citizens; that it was an imposition on citizens that had to be first justified by those seeking to impose it.

A notion that, IMO, had a dagger put through its heart in 1913.

Unfortunately.

Now some (e.g., most of the 535 clowns in DC and your favorite state and local legislatures, "liberal" and "conservative" alike) will argue that 1913 was an improvement.

With all due respect, however, they're wrong.

I have no "duty" to pay taxes. I only do so because I'm a wimp. Because I'd rather not deal with the consequences of failing to do so.

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Oh, yes, and regarding corruption?

Can someone please give me one example of a government without significant corruption?

You can choose from any time in human history.

Seriously.

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Sure thing Formo, that's why they want to regress all taxes down to the consumer level, cause they're able to talk morons into believing that it is fair to all. The rich invented an extra income tax on the poor too, and called it a Lottery. I want the wealthy to pay the same percentage of taxes on their income and property that you and I do, instead of sheltering their money and assets in foreign accounts while enjoy all the perks of being a US citizens. They deal from a stacked deck and you accept it like a bitch and have the nerve to call those of us who point out the bullshit, a bunch of pussies.

Not all the rich need to be stripped, just the ones with ill gotten wealth such as the decendents of plantation owners, bootleggers, swindlers, you know, most of Steve Forbes group of buddies. Oh yeah, and all the beneficiaries of corporate wealth who have been selling this country away one factory at a time, and putting working Americans out on the street.

And last but not least, Tea Bagger women don't need to go back to the Renaissance days, the 1950's will do. They bring their hard working man his slippers and pipe when he comes home and then return to the kitchen to promptly have dinner on the table by 6PM. After dinner she serves her man a couple of coctails, and then waits for him in the bedroom for some unsatisfying sex.

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Seems like the Native Americans had a good thing going. The men got to hunt and fish all day and the women did all the domestic things. They really didn't have a money and tax system to ignite the evils of western civilization. The tribes went to war against each though, for conquest of land so I guess that was all bullshit.

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You got those guys pinned, DT. It's like you live in their brain or something. :roll:

I'm fine with people having different opinions and beliefs.. What pissed me the fuck off is when a group of people are lumped into a broad category that is preconceived by mainstream social and political views.

For instance.. I'm a 'teabagger', and because of such I want to strip women of all their rights.. I want to ban all homosexuals from this great nation if they want to have a legal union/marriage.. I am a racist pig.. I hate the poor.. etc etc. I've been accused of all of the above and more, by people I thought to be my best friends none-the-less. And it couldn't be any further from the truth.

Sound familiar? Instead of slapping crude labels on me or on other 'teabaggers', I suggest actually taking a legitimate look at their beliefs and WHY they believe the way they do.

Whatever you do, no fear. I still wear my 'Fight Socialism' shirt with pride.

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So you're saying you are just want to be a tax evader then? LOL. I think the most successful ones live in Montana in little shacks in the mountains.

As far as lumping people into categories, what has your Tea Party done since Obama was elected but sabotage his entire presidency? In another time they would have been tried for treason. The right wing has a real problem - they can't lose with any kind of grace. Who's the real pussies Formo?

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If I remember right - I recently read about the 400 richest people in the states - their average income was 126 mil a year.
The amount of tax they paid was 17%

ya not 30 ... not 40 nor 50 ... 17%
was stated due to different tax breaks is why they only paid 17%. (was a recent yahoo article or linked from yahoo's news page).

'Heaven forbid we tax the rich ... like everyone else'