Cheesey
14 years ago
VERY funny Zero, VERY funny!!!LOL!
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago

VERY funny Zero, VERY funny!!!LOL!

"Cheesey" wrote:

😉
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Dulak
14 years ago
I have trouble also understanding the argument ... example - my figured might be off but here is the gist.

The british gas company made record profits last year 40% more meanwhile they kept charging bigger and bigger fees because the cost of fuel (as they say) ...

- just found a article; not sure if this is what I read awhile ago but
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1409225_british_gas_unveils_record_profit 

obviously my details were a bit off ...

- same like the financial sector ... they keep making huge profits; although not much has been done to curb what occured.

I do agree on more should be done to turn things green and less reliant on mid east oil.

I mean do we really want to be in the mideast? ...
Porforis
14 years ago

I have trouble also understanding the argument ... example - my figured might be off but here is the gist.

The british gas company made record profits last year 40% more meanwhile they kept charging bigger and bigger fees because the cost of fuel (as they say) ...

- just found a article; not sure if this is what I read awhile ago but
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1409225_british_gas_unveils_record_profit 

obviously my details were a bit off ...

- same like the financial sector ... they keep making huge profits; although not much has been done to curb what occured.

I do agree on more should be done to turn things green and less reliant on mid east oil.

I mean do we really want to be in the mideast? ...

"Dulak" wrote:



Just to be clear from the get-go I'm talking exclusively about the 'states as the geography, attitudes towards cars, and attitudes towards electricity are a lot different.

If you're talking about going green in terms of cars, the only real "green" cars out there are electric cars. Although you then have to ask where your electricity is coming from. How green do you want to be? Is coal good enough? Do we need to have more wind and solar power on the grid? Does increased reliance on non-24/7 forms of energy production create other problems, such as the potential for brownouts or blackouts?

How about nuclear power? After the recent disaster in Japan, do we still want to be building more nuclear power plants? Sure, we can keep them away from fault lines (I'm looking at you, CA), but earthquakes aren't the only potential disasters. Personally, I'm still all for nuclear power after a very close look at where plants are placed, but not all people are.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Okay, I'll be the cranky economist.

1. There are people willing to pay more for gas. Why the heck if I'm an oil company would I not charge all the market could bear?

2. If I'm an oil company shareholder, I want more profits rather than less. Why the heck shouldn't I reward very, very generously the management who finds a way to profit from higher and higher prices?

3. If you think oil should be cheaper, find a way to get it cheaper and stop buying as much from the people who charge so much.

4. If you think oil company execs get paid too much, buy less oil --if you buy less oil, oil company profits will go down. And oil company shareholders, being unhappy at same, will give less salaries to their executives.

There's not one of us who couldn't, if we wanted to, cut back on the amount of petroleum products we use. We could drive a little bit less, car pool a little more, use a bit less paint, check our tires more frequently, run our cars another 100 miles without an oil change, etc etc etc. And if we cut back a little bit, all of us, the oil companies would feel it. 300 million people each buying one less gallon of gas is over a billion dollars.

Of course, we don't. Instead we've found new ways to use more gas. Drive down the street. Count the SUVs. Count the number of two- and three- and four-car families. Count the number of cars with one person in them. Count the number of air conditioners. Count the number of bathrooms in houses. Etc. Etc. etc.

The price of gas gets higher because we keep increasing our demand for it.

So quit complaining about the damn oil companies and their rich execs. They're just scumbag drug dealers.

We're the damn addicts that enable them.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Wow Wade, you're right! I'll get a kiddie train on my bike and we'll ride 20 miles one way everywhere we need to go. And when I'm getting groceries I'll get a basket and make several trips!

WOW FUCKING GENIUS!
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zombieslayer
14 years ago

Okay, I'll be the cranky economist.

1. There are people willing to pay more for gas. Why the heck if I'm an oil company would I not charge all the market could bear?

2. If I'm an oil company shareholder, I want more profits rather than less. Why the heck shouldn't I reward very, very generously the management who finds a way to profit from higher and higher prices?

3. If you think oil should be cheaper, find a way to get it cheaper and stop buying as much from the people who charge so much.

4. If you think oil company execs get paid too much, buy less oil --if you buy less oil, oil company profits will go down. And oil company shareholders, being unhappy at same, will give less salaries to their executives.

There's not one of us who couldn't, if we wanted to, cut back on the amount of petroleum products we use. We could drive a little bit less, car pool a little more, use a bit less paint, check our tires more frequently, run our cars another 100 miles without an oil change, etc etc etc. And if we cut back a little bit, all of us, the oil companies would feel it. 300 million people each buying one less gallon of gas is over a billion dollars.

Of course, we don't. Instead we've found new ways to use more gas. Drive down the street. Count the SUVs. Count the number of two- and three- and four-car families. Count the number of cars with one person in them. Count the number of air conditioners. Count the number of bathrooms in houses. Etc. Etc. etc.

The price of gas gets higher because we keep increasing our demand for it.

So quit complaining about the damn oil companies and their rich execs. They're just scumbag drug dealers.

We're the damn addicts that enable them.

"Wade" wrote:



Wade gets it so he gets a :icon_smile:

Americans consume too much gas. Like a bunch of drug addicts. I still see 40-50% of vehicles on the road are trucks/vans/SUVs, even though I highly doubt the majority of people who drive them are blue collar workers, you know, the kind of people who NEED those vehicles.

As long as people keep overconsuming gas, gasoline will be expensive. Yes, Wade IS an economics professor but apparently I'm one of the few people who stayed awake in high school economics. There's a simple rule called "supply and demand."

And yes, Zero, I carpool and walk everywhere, including getting groceries. I have no problem carrying a few gallons of milk + groceries from the store to our apartment, as long as it's not raining. It is possible to consume less gasoline if people are willing to do it. But then again, I also take consuming less resources + saving for my retirement (by cutting costs) seriously.
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Gasoline consumption is only one part of the equation. Most people never stop to think that virtually all plastics (yes, that includes the polyester in your suit, Wade), pharmaceuticals, pesticides, insecticides, fertilizers, and innumerable other classes of everyday substances are also derived from petrochemicals. For example, the volume of oil consumed to produce a plastic bottle is approximately one-third the final volume of that bottle. So every time you drink a 20 oz. Coke, you just consumed about 7 oz. of crude oil.

In other words, even if everyone gave up their autos, we would still be using a a lot of oil. Eventually, we are going to have to find a way to move beyond our oil-based economy. There are solutions out there, but they are not cheap. The plastic water cups available at UW-L's cafeteria look and feel exactly like ordinary translucent plastic cups, but they are made from corn starch instead of petrochemicals. Of course, they cost 12 cents a cup instead of less than 2 cents a cup. But they are biodegradable and recyclable.

One thing I like about Oldenburg is that the busses here run on compressed natural gas (CNG), which, along with liquid propane gas (LPG), is available at some of the gas stations here. Whereas gasoline costs at least 1,55 per liter, CNG only costs about 0,79 per liter and I think LPG is about 0,49 per liter. A bus driver told me a bus typically burns about 200 kg of CNG a day. I am not sure how many liters that is.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I agree it is definitely possible to consume LESS fuel, no question. Hell, I just sold my Explorer and bought a Forte that doubled my mileage per gallon. However, walking 4.6 miles one way to get a loaf of bread or gallon of milk with a 9 year old feels a bit unreasonable.

4.6 x 2 is 9.2 (see I paid some attention in math class!) and figure 30 MPG, gas per gallon $3.59. Roughly guessing 1/3 of a gallon of gas will be used that'd be about $1.20 I'd save by biking or walking. Then consider the time to bike or walk and factor that into already being light on free time ....

I'd like to bike to work, but 12.7 miles one way might take too long. I'd have to figure out if I want to give up working out at 5am, or get up at 3:30am to work out, then bike to work.

I suppose you'll respond back saying I didn't pay attention in communications class because I'm not knocking on neighbors doors asking if they need groceries and if so, let's car pool--- right? Wait, everyone in my neighborhood speaks Spanish, so there I go failing once again because I didn't take Spanish in high school. lol


Again, I agree, we all could and in my opinion should be less dependent on fuel consumption. Sometimes the issues that arise are --- at what cost? I do appreciate zombieslayer attempt to answer the original question which was me failing to understand the NEED for gas prices to be so high,, its done because ... they can because WE let them, which I think is exactly what he's saying. Which I already knew as it's pretty damn obvious. I think there is no NEED for it, but as mentioned before, we are not doing anything to deter them from continuing to increase the prices. We still buy the big ass Hummer's and whatever else. Each Hummer sold, oil exec's get $$ in their eyes.

I could be wrong though because I didn't pay attention during high school language. 😛
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
No, you have it correct, Kevin.

That was actually my point (zombieslayer just said it more clearly). High prices for gas (and other petroleum based products), and the high oil company profits and high oil company executive compensation, all derive from the amount of our demand for those petroleum-based problems.

If people want those prices, profits, and compensation to go down, there's only one way to do it: find a way to reduce that demand.

Me, I'm not going to be more sustainable (sorry, zombieslayer) until the price goes up farther yet. Because the costs of carpooling, solar energy, whatever, is still even higher to me. Because, right now, oil, and even more so, coal, is still cheaper than the alternatives for my own "energy/paint/etc" needs. But that's a different question.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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