Wisconsin Scott Walker??

Pack93z
100% (Exalted)
Select Member

14 years ago

Musccy.. it is a good debate and one that has many justifiable layers in both camps.

I would rather see the Unions start to shape their policies and stances with an eye on the changing economic landscape than holding onto what they had in the past, at least in regards to those holding publicly funded positions governed by a union.

In private companies that have Union shops, they have to balance their operating revenue and profits verse the demands of the union, but they aren't operating on the taxpayers dollar and should be forcing their own Union reforms.

I am not a Union opponent through and through, I just see some major flaws in their approaches in today's world.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Wade
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#82

Please keep this discussion going on. I'm learning a lot from everyone.

Thanks.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

musccy
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#83

You're right that the unions aren't exactly these benevolent entities that they want us to believe they are. With escalating health care costs, something certainly needed to be done about public contributions to plans and I truly question whether or not the WI unions ever would have conceded the pension/HC contributions were it not for Walker threatening to dissolve the unions.

With that said, thus far it does seem that the public sector and Walker opponents are being inordinately targeted...and rumors of actions that will make the budget repair bill seem like a drop in the bucket make me really uneasy. This is all speculation until March 1st (when he'll reveal his budget) but if rumors are true, the 70k protestors we saw at the capitol on Saturday could be fractions of what we'll see next week.

djcubez
65.25% (Friendly)
Senior Member

14 years ago

#84

Regardless of whether you're a supporter, opponent or neutral towards unions this isn't the way this issue should be handled. The unions shouldn't just be completely abolished out of the blue through a bill by the governor. If it's an issue it should be talked about and focused on thoroughly like any other issue so that both parties can agree on options that are the most beneficial. I find the outright attack by Walker to be a bit disgusting.

musccy
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#85

agreed djcubez. I do not dispute the need to balance the budget either, but this my way or go fuck yourself - negotiating and collaboration is off the table - approach is deplorable. Of course to some extent it happens whether the left or right is in control, however...

Walker's most recent move is to use Wisconsin employees - citizens with families, actual working Wi citizens - as pawns in his political game. He's threatening layoffs to state employees to offset the 165 million in additional defecit the state is reportedly set to incur if they don't refinance portions of their debt by Friday - thus this is a move to strong arm the Wi 14 into returning and passing his union busting bill.

I would be on his side if he didn't pass 117 million in tax cuts 3 weeks ago and is rumored to have given his appointed staff 5% raises.

It's just absolutely maddening to see how far this guy will stretch his authority to ram rod his agenda up Wisconsin's pooper. If you didn't finance his 2010 campaign, then he's going to heap the 3.6 billion dollar burden squarely on your shoulders! Sounds like democracy to me!

dhpackr
60% (Friendly)
Registered

14 years ago

#86

"djcubez" wrote:

its called arbitration!!!!

So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste

dhpackr
60% (Friendly)
Registered

14 years ago

#87

Tripp I posted that on last page..Doyle and Unions tried for 17 months to get a new deal but failed
Walker was suppose to get it done in 2 weeks

"longtimefan" wrote:

plz explain why Walker had to get a new contract in 2 weeks?

The reality is Scott Walker has his own agenda. This is no longer about the budget in Wisconsin, and everyone should realize this fact.

Scott Walker wants to put an end to unions all together, and he is going to lose badly. This debate is going to define him and end his career.

The union has made financial concessions, that is a fact, the issue now is collective bargaining rights.

There should be no more whining and crying about how you all have to pay for your own retirement and healthcare, but state workers do not. That issue has been resolved.

It is a now about 1 mans political career against a right for a union to negotiate a contract with its employer.

Hasn't anyone realized how many states are getting involved and waiting to see this outcome. You do not think other states will come after state workers benefits to balance budgets????

Walker gives his staff raises, gives wealthy business owners tax cuts, and then comes gunning for the union and the people that educate, protect, and care for our families.

So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste

musccy
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#88

dhpackr.

The fact that he is STILL calling this a budget matter insults everyone's intelligence. He's getting his 5.8% pension and 12% HC contributions from the unions but STILL has the audacity to call this a budget issue?!? He STILL could not explain the NUMBERS of how unions affect the state budget in his fireside "chat" last night other than to say they're inconvenient for him.

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#89

Tripp I posted that on last page..Doyle and Unions tried for 17 months to get a new deal but failed
Walker was suppose to get it done in 2 weeks

"dhpackr" wrote:

"longtimefan" wrote:

Understand, I'm ignorant on this and do not know. One thing that has stuck to me, was the health care stuff. I feel everyone should have to pay for it themselves, minus firefighters, police, etc who put their life on the line. I have NO PROBLEM paying their health insurance.

I also feel teachers should be paid more, after all they are charged with raising the "future of the country" and get paid even less than I do.

You said that's been resolved, how? I haven't heard anything about that. I'm also in Colorado, lol. What was the resolution?

Removing collective bargaining rights, I don't know what that all entails, but from a high level, I feel it says ... hey you can't fight for a better wage ... if that's what its saying, I feel that's wrong.

dhpackr
60% (Friendly)
Registered

14 years ago

#90

you know, I grew up and live in Milw. At one time it was an awesome place to live, now it is becoming such a ghetto. All the breweries, tanneries, manufacturing jobs left town.

I hated Walker after the Tom Ament fiasco. He shut down county parks, bus lines, and gave tax breaks to wealthy business owners.

I do not get why Ament collects $95000 a year, after he is retired, and Walker is not concerned about that guy.

But the worker who cuts the lawn at curry park, well we need to cut his pay, pension, insurance benefits.

very interesting this is taking place where I grew up, and the outcome will affect every state in the nation.

So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste

dhpackr
60% (Friendly)
Registered

14 years ago

#91

plainly and simply, the union has said we will take pay cuts, pay our pension, and pay our insurance, but we still want to bargain a contract. Watch the news, it has been reported for days now.

Collective bargaining entails sitting down with management, and negotiating pay, retirement, insurance and grievance procedures through arbitration.

Which means an outside source will listen to both sides and decide a fair deal for both parties. It also means, the union has the ability to look at the states financial status to bargain a contract.

I just want to know how many people that hate the unions so much, were you ever part of a union?

did YOU EVER WRITE A GRIEVANCE AND go to union meetings?

So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste

musccy
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#92

I'm unfamiliar with the Tom Ament fiasco, but it seems consistent with his rumored pay increases for his newly appointed minions and the 117 million dollar tax break for out-of-state businesses just before he attacks the public sector.

I've said it before in this thread but we haven't seen the worst of this yet.

He's got roughly 3.3 billion to account for, and you might as well call it 4 + billion to account for the additional tax breaks and raises he'll give his buddies and people that supported his campaign in 2010.
Meanwhile, he'll fund his paybacks to friends with 900 million in cuts from public education among other public groups in his new budget on Tuesday - it's going to get really really really ugly in Madison!

dhpackr
60% (Friendly)
Registered

14 years ago

#93

Its nice to chat with someone who is informed.

I tell you, those cuts in public education are really scary to me. Why would any perspective teacher want a job in a nasty community, with low pay, poor insurance, and a weak retirement plan?

Milw. is going to become a ghetto like Detroit and Gary Ind. This is why I get pissed when a bonehead in Indiana tells me what is going on where I live everyday. The guy complains about the workforce not being trained, but wants to cut funding in public education. Wake up man!

Kids in the inner city will go hungry, have no hope, and resort to crime if the public schools lose even more funding. Not to mention closing down county parks as well as state parks.

So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste

longtimefan
51.25% (Neutral)
Registered

14 years ago

#94

I have no issue with funding the school district and the teachers via my property tax each year. I have no issue with treating the teachers fairly and equally to those in the private sector. None.

But if the cost is imbalanced to the rest of society in the benefits they receive and thus the cost to me, which in essence is getting double hit with the health care burden (Paying mine and theirs via tax dollar) than yes I will speak in opposition and ask that it be more in sync with society.

Now on the Union subject of the teachers themselves, set a standard in which the teachers that truly go above are rewarded verse the one just bidding time waiting for retirement, and reward those rightfully excelling over the others.. I would be more pro union.

Instead, they are compensated more on tenure than merit.
.

"Pack93z" wrote:

All those points are perfectly said for me

I could care less if someone is in a union and what they get for bennys...

I dont want to pay "double" to make up for what a employee wont be paying because of their unions

dhazer
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#95

I just saw this morning it is starting up in Ohio now also, the unions are marching on the capital. Everyone ready for 2012 yet, at this rate we will be the little poor country looking for help from others.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

dhpackr
60% (Friendly)
Registered

14 years ago

#96

yeah, its cold outside, we're at war, ppl are protesting, it MUST MEAN THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!

So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste

dhazer
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#97

2012 = civil war in the united states. We are not the land of the free and people will get sick of it all.

As they always say " The South will rise again" lol

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

Pack93z
100% (Exalted)
Select Member

14 years ago

#98

I just want to know how many people that hate the unions so much, were you ever part of a union?

did YOU EVER WRITE A GRIEVANCE AND go to union meetings?

"dhpackr" wrote:

I don't "hate" the unions.

I never have worked for a union, but I was on the opposing side in two plants, the management side.

Countless grievance hearings... and we tried to work through them fairly.

But a worker that had no business holding a job because of their effort, lasted far longer than they ever should have based on merit because the union had to protect them. They also failed to look at the big picture often that holding onto unproductive workers were actually putting more of their brothers and sisters that honestly put in a days work in a pinch because of the salary and productivity burdens that we placed on them because of the "turds".

When a Supervisor or we as management messed up and effected a productive worker.. I had no issue with working through the issue. But I would do that regardless of the union or not.

I guess it really depends on the situation and the management team, I know I took enough heat from my stance in working with the union verse fighting them tooth and nail on everything from the Board and Corner fourth floor office of the President.. but at the end of the day, I brought production up, cost down and generally had a solid relationship with the workforce at the Glass plant. The vinyl plant was being sold and the workers were being merged into the other plants.. the marching orders there were much different than running a productive plant, it was ramping down production, managing inventory to minimize loss and dealing with workers being displaced from their current positions.. 9 months of hating going to work, but we kept all but 3 workers out of 97. Just they whined about moving to one plant or another.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

musccy
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#99

"dhpackr" wrote:

This is a good point. I want to reiterate that I'm not opposed to the 5.8/12% contributions as long as comparable cuts are felt across the board.

With that said, this misconception perpetuated by the Limbaughs and Scott Walkers of the world that public employees are overcompensated, lazy, freeloading malcontents could not be further from the truth.

I'm by no means saying the private sector doesn't have some drawbacks, no compensation for long 50+ hour work weeks is one of many complaints I know many people deal with.

However, the public sector is already payed about 4.8% less than their private counterparts in WI, and the benefits and compensation through pay increases and job security for accumulated experience and education have often been the tradeoff for lower comparable salaries and other drawbacks to the positions.

However, this bill and the rumored 900 million in education cuts next week will severly handicap public education (not to mention where Walker will be cutting the other ~2.3 billion from) and make cheap, expendable, underqualified labor a desired trait in a public employee.

djcubez
65.25% (Friendly)
Senior Member

14 years ago

#100

Wisconsin's Power Play

Important Information:

The uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More Details Close

Fan Shout

Zero2Cool (1h) : What the hell

beast (7h) : Packershome going to the Whiteout unis again

Zero2Cool (13h) : Oh wait, they got Cam Ward. 1st overall right? haha oops

Zero2Cool (13h) : They could send Packers a 1st for a QB they are familiar with

Zero2Cool (13h) : Titans QB Will Levis to have season-ending shoulder surgery

Zero2Cool (19-Jul) : Their season did kind of start there, so 🤷

dfosterf (19-Jul) : Eagles put an engraved Brazil flag on their super bowl rings

Zero2Cool (18-Jul) : Benton unsigned no more

Zero2Cool (17-Jul) : That's good analysis, yes you are getting old. It'd a blessing!

dfosterf (14-Jul) : *analysis* gettin' old

dfosterf (14-Jul) : One of the best analyisis I"ve ever watched at this time of an offseason

dfosterf (14-Jul) : Andy Herman interviewed Warren Sharp on his Pack a day podcast

packerfanoutwest (10-Jul) : Us Padres fans love it....But it'll be a Dodgers/Yankees World Series

Zero2Cool (9-Jul) : Brewers sweep Dodgers. Awesome

Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : And James Flanigan is the grandson of Packers Super Bowl winner Jim Flanigan Sr.

Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : Jerome Bettis and Jim Flanigans sons as well!

Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Thomas Davis Jr is OLB, not WR. Oops.

Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Larry Fitzgeral and Thomas Davis sons too. WR's as well.

Mucky Tundra (5-Jul) : Kaydon Finley, son of Jermichael Finley, commits to Notre Dame

dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!

Zero2Cool (3-Jul) : My cousin, yes.

dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?

Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.

Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself

Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"

Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs

Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade

Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade

dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us

dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.

wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.

Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year

dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot

dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.

dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year

dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest

dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.

Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?

Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason

Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”

Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.

Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.

Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH

beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.

Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law

Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter

Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2025 Packers Schedule

Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM

LIONS

Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM

COMMANDERS

Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM

Browns

Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM

Cowboys

Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM

BENGALS

Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM

Cardinals

Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM

Steelers

Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM

PANTHERS

Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM

EAGLES

Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM

Giants

Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM

VIKINGS

Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM

Lions

Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM

BEARS

Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM

Broncos

Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM

Bears

Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM

RAVENS

Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM

Vikings