azrunning
14 years ago
Hard to quantify this but CM3 also gets a lot of holding calls and false starts. I don't watch the dolphins or ravens enough to make the call on suggs and wake but those penalties are nice for the Pack.
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ILikeThePackers39
14 years ago
I liked Millertime's rundown - and I'm reminded of similar debate last year when Woodson won AP DPOY. Numerous people objected, saying that since Revis was a better CB he should win the award. Several others (I was in this group) argued to no avail that given the breadth of what Woodson was able to accomplish, DPOY was deserved. Because it's Defensive Player of the Year, not best cornerback or best OLB.

Given the range of skills CMIII has employed this season, I think the argument is similar. Did he get the most sacks? No (close, though), but did the others being mentioned as more deserving get the interceptions, forced fumbles, and other impact plays that he did? Nope.

If we were talking best OLB in a 3-4 defense, maybe you pick Wake or Suggs (or go with Ware, since he was the sack leader). We're not - DPOY is an award for overall impact and play, and with that standard, I have no problem with Matthews getting it.
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Packers_Finland
14 years ago

Given the range of skills CMIII has employed this season, I think the argument is similar. Did he get the most sacks? No (close, though), but did the others being mentioned as more deserving get the interceptions, forced fumbles, and other impact plays that he did? Nope.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



There's not a stat for impact plays, but here's a comparison between CM3 and the guys I mentioned on some impact stats.

CM3 - 2 Forced Fumbles, 1 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries, 1 TD
Ware - 2 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 2 Fumble Recoveries, 1 TD
Wake - 3 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries
Hali - 4 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 2 Fumble Recoveries
Harrison - 6 Forced Fumbles, 2 INTs, 1 Fumble Recovery
Suggs - 2 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries

He didn't lead any one statistic, nor all statistics combined compared to other elite 3-4 OLBs.

Ware, Wake and Hali had more sacks than him. Harrison, Suggs, Wake and Ware had more tackles for loss.

They all blew up plays that only show on the stat sheet as a tackle, so I don't think we can give CM3 an advantage on that either.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Did they also play opposite of Brad Jones, Brady Poppinga, Brandon Chillar, Frank Zombo, Erik Walden?
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azrunning
14 years ago

Given the range of skills CMIII has employed this season, I think the argument is similar. Did he get the most sacks? No (close, though), but did the others being mentioned as more deserving get the interceptions, forced fumbles, and other impact plays that he did? Nope.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



There's not a stat for impact plays, but here's a comparison between CM3 and the guys I mentioned on some impact stats.

CM3 - 2 Forced Fumbles, 1 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries, 1 TD
Ware - 2 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 2 Fumble Recoveries, 1 TD
Wake - 3 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries
Hali - 4 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 2 Fumble Recoveries
Harrison - 6 Forced Fumbles, 2 INTs, 1 Fumble Recovery
Suggs - 2 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries

He didn't lead any one statistic, nor all statistics combined compared to other elite 3-4 OLBs.

Ware, Wake and Hali had more sacks than him. Harrison, Suggs, Wake and Ware had more tackles for loss.

They all blew up plays that only show on the stat sheet as a tackle, so I don't think we can give CM3 an advantage on that either.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



I think people are saying that just the stats don't tell the whole story. If he is getting double teamed then somebody else has a better opportunity. If the back or TE has to help block him then they don't go out on a route. On this team, for this defense, I think he offers more than his stats than the other LB's do for their teams.
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Greg C.
14 years ago

I trust the writers to pick the right guy more than I trust the players, coaches, and GMs. The football people often don't have the best perspective on the league as a whole. The writers are at least supposed to have that perspective. Not all of them do, but I think most of them at least give it a good effort. I think Clay will win the AP award anyway. He deserves it.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



I don't really 'trust' any of their votes. Did each voter watch every play of every game to properly and accurately dispense their vote? Often time writers are in certain regions, rather than covering every game like say a Peter King.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



But Peter King is totally sniffing Tom Brady's balls.

"Greg C." wrote:



Well, it's not like he's the only one who's doing that. And it might have something to do with Brady being the best QB in the league right now, possibly the best of the past decade, and moving further into all-time great territory each season.
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DakotaT
14 years ago
I think the year Clay had while sitting out a game and a half, and playing injured for quite a few games is a testament to how good he is. And there was also quite a dropoff in the D when he wasn't on the field. No way we lose to Washington and Miami with Clay on the field.
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peteralan71
14 years ago
The one thing that I never thought of until I read all of the posts on this topic is that Clay certainly garners more attention from offenses than any player I've seen for a long time. He is always being double teamed, and in the midst of that, he continues to make plays. Sure, they aren't as often, but he still does. Also, every time he is double teamed, that is one less guy that is getting paid attention to for our defense, allowing other players to get their names in the paper.
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Greg C.
14 years ago

The one thing that I never thought of until I read all of the posts on this topic is that Clay certainly garners more attention from offenses than any player I've seen for a long time. He is always being double teamed, and in the midst of that, he continues to make plays. Sure, they aren't as often, but he still does. Also, every time he is double teamed, that is one less guy that is getting paid attention to for our defense, allowing other players to get their names in the paper.

"peteralan71" wrote:



...resulting in this being the #2 scoring defense in the league in spite of a patchwork lineup due to numerous injuries.

The high ranking of our defense was no doubt a huge factor in this vote, and rightfully so. The only better defense was the Steelers, and they had two guys who got a lot of votes. Possibly their two players split the votes, but I think Clay still had more impact than either one of them.
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kobe16
14 years ago
Back to back pack players for DPOY way to go Clay!!
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