azrunning
13 years ago
Hard to quantify this but CM3 also gets a lot of holding calls and false starts. I don't watch the dolphins or ravens enough to make the call on suggs and wake but those penalties are nice for the Pack.
BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
ILikeThePackers39
13 years ago
I liked Millertime's rundown - and I'm reminded of similar debate last year when Woodson won AP DPOY. Numerous people objected, saying that since Revis was a better CB he should win the award. Several others (I was in this group) argued to no avail that given the breadth of what Woodson was able to accomplish, DPOY was deserved. Because it's Defensive Player of the Year, not best cornerback or best OLB.

Given the range of skills CMIII has employed this season, I think the argument is similar. Did he get the most sacks? No (close, though), but did the others being mentioned as more deserving get the interceptions, forced fumbles, and other impact plays that he did? Nope.

If we were talking best OLB in a 3-4 defense, maybe you pick Wake or Suggs (or go with Ware, since he was the sack leader). We're not - DPOY is an award for overall impact and play, and with that standard, I have no problem with Matthews getting it.
blank
Packers_Finland
13 years ago

Given the range of skills CMIII has employed this season, I think the argument is similar. Did he get the most sacks? No (close, though), but did the others being mentioned as more deserving get the interceptions, forced fumbles, and other impact plays that he did? Nope.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



There's not a stat for impact plays, but here's a comparison between CM3 and the guys I mentioned on some impact stats.

CM3 - 2 Forced Fumbles, 1 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries, 1 TD
Ware - 2 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 2 Fumble Recoveries, 1 TD
Wake - 3 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries
Hali - 4 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 2 Fumble Recoveries
Harrison - 6 Forced Fumbles, 2 INTs, 1 Fumble Recovery
Suggs - 2 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries

He didn't lead any one statistic, nor all statistics combined compared to other elite 3-4 OLBs.

Ware, Wake and Hali had more sacks than him. Harrison, Suggs, Wake and Ware had more tackles for loss.

They all blew up plays that only show on the stat sheet as a tackle, so I don't think we can give CM3 an advantage on that either.
This is a placeholder
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
Did they also play opposite of Brad Jones, Brady Poppinga, Brandon Chillar, Frank Zombo, Erik Walden?
UserPostedImage
azrunning
13 years ago

Given the range of skills CMIII has employed this season, I think the argument is similar. Did he get the most sacks? No (close, though), but did the others being mentioned as more deserving get the interceptions, forced fumbles, and other impact plays that he did? Nope.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



There's not a stat for impact plays, but here's a comparison between CM3 and the guys I mentioned on some impact stats.

CM3 - 2 Forced Fumbles, 1 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries, 1 TD
Ware - 2 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 2 Fumble Recoveries, 1 TD
Wake - 3 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries
Hali - 4 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 2 Fumble Recoveries
Harrison - 6 Forced Fumbles, 2 INTs, 1 Fumble Recovery
Suggs - 2 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, 0 Fumble Recoveries

He didn't lead any one statistic, nor all statistics combined compared to other elite 3-4 OLBs.

Ware, Wake and Hali had more sacks than him. Harrison, Suggs, Wake and Ware had more tackles for loss.

They all blew up plays that only show on the stat sheet as a tackle, so I don't think we can give CM3 an advantage on that either.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



I think people are saying that just the stats don't tell the whole story. If he is getting double teamed then somebody else has a better opportunity. If the back or TE has to help block him then they don't go out on a route. On this team, for this defense, I think he offers more than his stats than the other LB's do for their teams.
BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
Greg C.
13 years ago

I trust the writers to pick the right guy more than I trust the players, coaches, and GMs. The football people often don't have the best perspective on the league as a whole. The writers are at least supposed to have that perspective. Not all of them do, but I think most of them at least give it a good effort. I think Clay will win the AP award anyway. He deserves it.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



I don't really 'trust' any of their votes. Did each voter watch every play of every game to properly and accurately dispense their vote? Often time writers are in certain regions, rather than covering every game like say a Peter King.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



But Peter King is totally sniffing Tom Brady's balls.

"Greg C." wrote:



Well, it's not like he's the only one who's doing that. And it might have something to do with Brady being the best QB in the league right now, possibly the best of the past decade, and moving further into all-time great territory each season.
blank
DakotaT
13 years ago
I think the year Clay had while sitting out a game and a half, and playing injured for quite a few games is a testament to how good he is. And there was also quite a dropoff in the D when he wasn't on the field. No way we lose to Washington and Miami with Clay on the field.
UserPostedImage
peteralan71
13 years ago
The one thing that I never thought of until I read all of the posts on this topic is that Clay certainly garners more attention from offenses than any player I've seen for a long time. He is always being double teamed, and in the midst of that, he continues to make plays. Sure, they aren't as often, but he still does. Also, every time he is double teamed, that is one less guy that is getting paid attention to for our defense, allowing other players to get their names in the paper.
Green Bay: Home of the Green & Gold. And the hunter orange. And the camouflage.
UserPostedImage
Greg C.
13 years ago

The one thing that I never thought of until I read all of the posts on this topic is that Clay certainly garners more attention from offenses than any player I've seen for a long time. He is always being double teamed, and in the midst of that, he continues to make plays. Sure, they aren't as often, but he still does. Also, every time he is double teamed, that is one less guy that is getting paid attention to for our defense, allowing other players to get their names in the paper.

"peteralan71" wrote:



...resulting in this being the #2 scoring defense in the league in spite of a patchwork lineup due to numerous injuries.

The high ranking of our defense was no doubt a huge factor in this vote, and rightfully so. The only better defense was the Steelers, and they had two guys who got a lot of votes. Possibly their two players split the votes, but I think Clay still had more impact than either one of them.
blank
kobe16
13 years ago
Back to back pack players for DPOY way to go Clay!!
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Mahomes Magic baby! *cough*
TheKanataThrilla (3h) : KC the luckiest team in the league
Zero2Cool (8h) : Frigging host issues for site again
beast (8h) : For the first time in their long history, the Bears fire their head coach mid-season. Which comes after three very close in-division losses.
Zero2Cool (29-Nov) : At the game now. Kampman and Cullen Jenkins are here.
buckeyepackfan (29-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving Packer Fans! Gonna celebrate with some grilled Dolphin later!
buckeyepackfan (29-Nov) : Inactive 23 CB Jaire Alexander 56 LB Edgerrin Cooper 62 OL Jacob Monk 87 WR Romeo Doubs
dhazer (29-Nov) : Just a talking point, do we try and trade Jaire next year to get out from the contract as he can't stay healthy
Zero2Cool (28-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving! About to head to game.
wpr (28-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving
Martha Careful (28-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving Everybody...Go Packers!!!
Zero2Cool (28-Nov) : That is what a lot of people seem to think. Even though when he was on Giants, he was trash.
Martha Careful (27-Nov) : Brilliant move by Vikings!!! The signing provide great leverage in Darnold negotiations
Mucky Tundra (27-Nov) : Boo!
Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Packers have ruled out Jaire Alexander, Edgerrin Cooper, and Romeo Doubs for Thursday's game against the Dolphins.
Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Daniel Jones joins Vikings
Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Tomorrow high 32° and low 19°
beast (27-Nov) : Thanks Mucky!
Mucky Tundra (27-Nov) : beast, forecast is looking like 27-28 degrees at kickoff, slight chance of snow flurries
Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Oh? It wasn't on the injury report. That sucks, but it's what is best.
packerfanoutwest (26-Nov) : Doubs is out due to concussion
beast (26-Nov) : What does the weather look like?
Martha Careful (26-Nov) : You can wear long-johns mittens and a hat. We want Hill and their other skill guys FROZEN
Zero2Cool (26-Nov) : I'm not sure I hope for that. I'll be at the game.
Martha Careful (25-Nov) : I hope it is colder than a well-diggers ass on Thanksgiving night.
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
beast (25-Nov) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
Mucky Tundra (25-Nov) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Bears. Vikings. OT
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Thems the breaks I guess
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

27-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Nov / Featured Content / Martha Careful

26-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / GameDay Threads / Zero2Cool

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.