djcubez
  • djcubez
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
I decided to compile margin of victory stats for 7 different teams (Steelers, Patriots, Colts and the whole NFC North) over the past 5 years because of something NonStopDrivel said. I can't remember exactly what it was though.

A Few Notes
I used margins of 0-4, 5-7 and 8+ points. In hindsight 0-3, 4-7 and 8+ may have been better but I'm not doing this all again ;)

I tried to pick teams that have had both consistency at the head coaching position and had fielded great teams in recent history. I then picked the NFC North to get a more robust sample base so we're not just comparing McCarthy to "elite" coaches.

I did not include any playoff games.


				== Steelers ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	10-4 	Tomlin		 3	 3	4	| 1	 1	2	
2009	9-7	Tomlin		 3	 1	5	| 5	 2	0
2008	12-4	Tomlin	 	 3	 2	6	| 1	 1	2	
2007	10-6	Tomlin	 	 2	 0	8	| 2	 3	1
2006	8-8	Cowher		 1	 2	5	| 1	 1	6
===============================================================================
Tomlin Total:			 8	 6	23	| 9	 7	5
Cowher Total:			 1	 2 	5 	| 2	 3 	1
Overall Total:			 9	 8	28	| 11	 10	6


				== Colts ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	8-6	Caldwell	 2	 1	5	| 4	 0	2
2009	14-2	Caldwell	 7 	 0	7	| 0	 0	2
2008	12-4	Dungy		 6	 2	4	| 1	 0	3
2007	13-3	Dungy		 3	 2 	8	| 2	 1	0
2006	12-4	Dungy		 4	 4	4	| 3	 1	1
===============================================================================
Caldwell Total:			 9	 1	12	| 4	 0	4
Dungy Total:			 13	 8	16	| 6	 2	1
Overall Total:			 22	 9	28	| 10	 2	5


				== Patriots ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	12-2	Belichick	 4	 0	8	| 0	 0	2
2009	10-6	Belichick	 1	 2	7	| 3	 2	1
2008	11-5	Belichick	 1	 2	8	| 2	 0	3
2007	16-0	Belichick	 4	 0	12	| 0	 0	0
2006	12-4	Belichick	 3	 2	7	| 1	 1	2
===============================================================================
Belichick Total:		 13	 6	42	| 6	 3	8


				== Bears ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	10-4	Smith		 3	 3	4	| 2	 0	2
2009	7-9	Smith		 1	 2	4	| 2	 3	4
2008	9-7	Smith		 4	 1	4	| 3	 2	2
2007	7-9	Smith		 2	 1	4	| 1	 3	5
2006	13-3	Smith		 3	 1	9	| 1	 0	2
===============================================================================
Smith Total:			 13	 8	23	| 9	 8	15


				== Lions ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	4-10	Schwartz	 2	 0	2	| 5	 1	4
2009	2-14	Schwartz	 1	 1	0	| 0	 2	12
2008	0-16	Marinelli	 0	 0	0 	| 3	 1	12
2007 	7-9	Marinelli	 1	 2	4	| 1	 1	7
2006	3-13	Marinelli	 1	 0	2	| 1	 7	5
===============================================================================
Schwartz Total:			 3	 1	2	| 5	 3	16
Marinelli Total:		 2	 2	6	| 6	 9	24
Overall Total:			 5	 3	8	| 11	 12	40


				== Vikings ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	5-9	Childress*	 3	 0	2	| 2	 1	6
2009	12-4	Childress	 2	 1	9	| 0	 1	3
2008	10-6	Childress	 5	 1	4	| 1	 4	1
2007	8-8	Childress	 1	 3	4	| 3	 2	3
2006	6-10	Childress	 2	 1	3	| 3	 3	4
===============================================================================
Childress Total:		 13	 6	22	| 9	 11	17

* Childress got fired during the season and Leslie Frazier took over as interim 

coach. I still gave Childress credit for the games Frazier coached.

And of course McCarthy and the Packers.


				== Packers ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	8-6	McCarthy	 2	 1	5	| 6	 0	0
2009	11-5	McCarthy	 0	 3	8	| 1	 2	2	
2008	6-10	McCarthy	 0	 1	5	| 7	 0	3	
2007	13-3	McCarthy	 2	 2	9	| 0	 1	2
2006	8-8	McCarthy	 1	 2	5	| 1	 1	6
===============================================================================
McCarthy Total:			 5	 9	32	| 15	 4	12

Reaction
Obviously these are raw stats that negate any situational or conditional aspects of the game (missed FG's, injuries, weather, etc) so you can't draw any definite conclusions. Yet it's apparent that McCarthy's teams have not fared well in close games. Here are the records for coaches in games decided by 4 points or less: McCarthy (5-15), Tomlin (8-9), Dungy (13-6), Caldwell (9-4), Bellchick (13-6), Lovie Smith (13-9), Childress (13-9), Schwartz (3-5), Marinelli (2-6). Of all the coaches I checked McCarthy has the worst winning percentage in games decided by 4 points or less.

When you bump it up to games decided by a TD (7 points) or less McCarthy fares a bit better: McCarthy (14-19), Childress (19-20), Schwartz (4-8), Marinelli (4-15), Smith (21-17), Belichick(19-9), Caldwell (10-4), Dungy (21-8), Tomlin (14-16).

However what's interesting are the records for games decided by 8 points or more: Tomlin (23-5), Caldwell (12-4), Dungy (16-1), Belichick (42-8), Smith (23-15), Schwartz (2-16), Marinelli (6-24), Childress (22-17), McCarthy (32-12).

Now here's what's interesting. Let's lose the 2006 8-8 season for a moment. Of the 12 times that McCarthy's teams have been beaten by 8 or more points 6 came in the 8-8 2006 season. That means that over the past 4 years McCarthy has only lost 6 games by 8 or more points and 3 by 5-7 points. 14 of the Packers 23 losses in the past four years have been decided by 0-4 points. For comparison: McCarthy (14/23), Childress (6/27), Smith (8/29), Belichick (5/13), Tomlin (9/21), Dungy (6/13) Caldwell (4/8).

From a year-to-year standpoint McCarthy's teams are improving by playing more close games and blowing out more opponents. It seems that McCarthy is really close to the "elite" level of coaching but he has to make the leap from "good" or as some around here would like to say "mediocre." Here's to hoping he can figure it out and get us there!

Like I said before these are only stats and can never explain the whole story. Take from this what you will.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Incredible!
UserPostedImage
Felipe7777777
14 years ago
Nice freakin idea and data collecting, bravo, real interesting too, thanks!
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mi_keys
14 years ago
+1 for the work, I always appreciate it when someone digs up as many statistics as you have to give us another viewpoint to look at what has happened.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Greg C.
14 years ago
Interesting stuff, and I agree with your conclusion that McCarthy falls short of being an "elite" coach. This is kind of a good companion piece to the article that somebody linked a few weeks ago, which demonstrated that Aaron Rodgers' lack of comeback wins is not really his fault. The problem seems to be a broader one with McCarthy's teams. Collectively, it seems like they just don't have the starch to win their share of close games.

The question is whether this means McCarthy is not the right guy to lead the Packers to a championship. I think he's shown a lot more good than bad in his time here, and he has almost certainly earned at least another year.
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millertime
14 years ago
+1. Thanks for this. Nice to have some data to support what we all know, the Pack will either blow a team out or lose by a FG.
14 years ago
Don't you just hate it on a message board when some guy lips off and you wind up doing all the resarch. You and some otthers can learn a few things but thee will always be somebody saying something without the facts.

The funny thing this season is the Packers had been leading in net points for many weeks but now dropped to 3rd (1st in NFC) and in net TD's they are second to Patriots.
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Mucky Tundra (2h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (2h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (2h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (2h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!
wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.
beast (20-Dec) : As of tonight, 3 way tie for 2nd in Pick'em, that battle is interesting!
beast (20-Dec) : Lions vs Vikings could be the main last game as it could determine division winners or #1 vs #2 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Or if KC needs to win for the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Right now it looks like the only prime worthy games are Det-Minny and KC-Denver (if Denver can clinch a wild card spot)
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : The entirety of week 18 being listed as flex is weird
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Matt LaFleur today says unequivocally "Ted Thompson had nothing to do with the drafting of Jordan Love."
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Apparently, the editing is what pieces comments together. That Ted thing ... fake news.
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : LaFleur "opportunity that Ted Thompson thought was too good to pass up"
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Jordan Love pick was Ted Thompson's idea.
Mucky Tundra (19-Dec) : Kyle Shanahan on signing De'Vondre Campbell as a FA last offseason: “We obviously made a mistake.”
packerfanoutwest (19-Dec) : Alexander’s last season with GB
Martha Careful (18-Dec) : if I were a professional athlete, I would probably look to see who the agent is for Kirk Cousins and then use him
beast (18-Dec) : $100 million fully guaranteed Kirk Cousins gets benched for rookie
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : a lower case b
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : The real lie is how beast capitalized his name in his message while it's normally spelled with
packerfanoutwest (18-Dec) : haha that's a lie
beast (17-Dec) : Despite what lies other might tell, Beast didn't hate the Winter Warnings, it felt refreshing to Beast for some reason.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : whiteout uniforms in general are pretty lame and weak. NFL greed at it's worst
Martha Careful (17-Dec) : The Viking uniforms, the whiteout uniforms specifically absolutely suck
beast (17-Dec) : Thanks Zero2Cool, looks a lot better now
beast (17-Dec) : Seems like someone has a crush on me, can't stop talking about me
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : Should be gooder now. The forum default theme went to goofy land.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : What the hell
packerfanoutwest (17-Dec) : yeah beast hates the Winter Warning Unies
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Okay I'm glad to know it's not just something happening to me lol
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Zero, did you copy the Packers uniforms from last night and white out the board?
beast (16-Dec) : Oh crap, is the board going to the Winter Warning Uniforms too?!? It's all white on white right now!
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : WR Odell Beckham Jr is officially a free agent after clearing waivers.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Packers are 6th in sacks.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : RB David Montgomery will undergo season-ending knee surgery.
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Dan Campbell on onside kick with 12 minutes left: In hindsight, wish I didn’t do that
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : They have that whole 12th man thing so ...
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Of the times we've played there, I just can't recall hearing our fans.
wpr (16-Dec) : Well done jdlax. Well done.
wpr (16-Dec) : I think more likely to be Pack fans that live in the area.
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