djcubez
  • djcubez
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
I decided to compile margin of victory stats for 7 different teams (Steelers, Patriots, Colts and the whole NFC North) over the past 5 years because of something NonStopDrivel said. I can't remember exactly what it was though.

A Few Notes
I used margins of 0-4, 5-7 and 8+ points. In hindsight 0-3, 4-7 and 8+ may have been better but I'm not doing this all again ;)

I tried to pick teams that have had both consistency at the head coaching position and had fielded great teams in recent history. I then picked the NFC North to get a more robust sample base so we're not just comparing McCarthy to "elite" coaches.

I did not include any playoff games.


				== Steelers ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	10-4 	Tomlin		 3	 3	4	| 1	 1	2	
2009	9-7	Tomlin		 3	 1	5	| 5	 2	0
2008	12-4	Tomlin	 	 3	 2	6	| 1	 1	2	
2007	10-6	Tomlin	 	 2	 0	8	| 2	 3	1
2006	8-8	Cowher		 1	 2	5	| 1	 1	6
===============================================================================
Tomlin Total:			 8	 6	23	| 9	 7	5
Cowher Total:			 1	 2 	5 	| 2	 3 	1
Overall Total:			 9	 8	28	| 11	 10	6


				== Colts ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	8-6	Caldwell	 2	 1	5	| 4	 0	2
2009	14-2	Caldwell	 7 	 0	7	| 0	 0	2
2008	12-4	Dungy		 6	 2	4	| 1	 0	3
2007	13-3	Dungy		 3	 2 	8	| 2	 1	0
2006	12-4	Dungy		 4	 4	4	| 3	 1	1
===============================================================================
Caldwell Total:			 9	 1	12	| 4	 0	4
Dungy Total:			 13	 8	16	| 6	 2	1
Overall Total:			 22	 9	28	| 10	 2	5


				== Patriots ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	12-2	Belichick	 4	 0	8	| 0	 0	2
2009	10-6	Belichick	 1	 2	7	| 3	 2	1
2008	11-5	Belichick	 1	 2	8	| 2	 0	3
2007	16-0	Belichick	 4	 0	12	| 0	 0	0
2006	12-4	Belichick	 3	 2	7	| 1	 1	2
===============================================================================
Belichick Total:		 13	 6	42	| 6	 3	8


				== Bears ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	10-4	Smith		 3	 3	4	| 2	 0	2
2009	7-9	Smith		 1	 2	4	| 2	 3	4
2008	9-7	Smith		 4	 1	4	| 3	 2	2
2007	7-9	Smith		 2	 1	4	| 1	 3	5
2006	13-3	Smith		 3	 1	9	| 1	 0	2
===============================================================================
Smith Total:			 13	 8	23	| 9	 8	15


				== Lions ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	4-10	Schwartz	 2	 0	2	| 5	 1	4
2009	2-14	Schwartz	 1	 1	0	| 0	 2	12
2008	0-16	Marinelli	 0	 0	0 	| 3	 1	12
2007 	7-9	Marinelli	 1	 2	4	| 1	 1	7
2006	3-13	Marinelli	 1	 0	2	| 1	 7	5
===============================================================================
Schwartz Total:			 3	 1	2	| 5	 3	16
Marinelli Total:		 2	 2	6	| 6	 9	24
Overall Total:			 5	 3	8	| 11	 12	40


				== Vikings ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	5-9	Childress*	 3	 0	2	| 2	 1	6
2009	12-4	Childress	 2	 1	9	| 0	 1	3
2008	10-6	Childress	 5	 1	4	| 1	 4	1
2007	8-8	Childress	 1	 3	4	| 3	 2	3
2006	6-10	Childress	 2	 1	3	| 3	 3	4
===============================================================================
Childress Total:		 13	 6	22	| 9	 11	17

* Childress got fired during the season and Leslie Frazier took over as interim 

coach. I still gave Childress credit for the games Frazier coached.

And of course McCarthy and the Packers.


				== Packers ==
Year	Record	Coach			Wins		|	Losses
===============================================================================
				0-4	5-7	8+	|0-4	5-7	8+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010	8-6	McCarthy	 2	 1	5	| 6	 0	0
2009	11-5	McCarthy	 0	 3	8	| 1	 2	2	
2008	6-10	McCarthy	 0	 1	5	| 7	 0	3	
2007	13-3	McCarthy	 2	 2	9	| 0	 1	2
2006	8-8	McCarthy	 1	 2	5	| 1	 1	6
===============================================================================
McCarthy Total:			 5	 9	32	| 15	 4	12

Reaction
Obviously these are raw stats that negate any situational or conditional aspects of the game (missed FG's, injuries, weather, etc) so you can't draw any definite conclusions. Yet it's apparent that McCarthy's teams have not fared well in close games. Here are the records for coaches in games decided by 4 points or less: McCarthy (5-15), Tomlin (8-9), Dungy (13-6), Caldwell (9-4), Bellchick (13-6), Lovie Smith (13-9), Childress (13-9), Schwartz (3-5), Marinelli (2-6). Of all the coaches I checked McCarthy has the worst winning percentage in games decided by 4 points or less.

When you bump it up to games decided by a TD (7 points) or less McCarthy fares a bit better: McCarthy (14-19), Childress (19-20), Schwartz (4-8), Marinelli (4-15), Smith (21-17), Belichick(19-9), Caldwell (10-4), Dungy (21-8), Tomlin (14-16).

However what's interesting are the records for games decided by 8 points or more: Tomlin (23-5), Caldwell (12-4), Dungy (16-1), Belichick (42-8), Smith (23-15), Schwartz (2-16), Marinelli (6-24), Childress (22-17), McCarthy (32-12).

Now here's what's interesting. Let's lose the 2006 8-8 season for a moment. Of the 12 times that McCarthy's teams have been beaten by 8 or more points 6 came in the 8-8 2006 season. That means that over the past 4 years McCarthy has only lost 6 games by 8 or more points and 3 by 5-7 points. 14 of the Packers 23 losses in the past four years have been decided by 0-4 points. For comparison: McCarthy (14/23), Childress (6/27), Smith (8/29), Belichick (5/13), Tomlin (9/21), Dungy (6/13) Caldwell (4/8).

From a year-to-year standpoint McCarthy's teams are improving by playing more close games and blowing out more opponents. It seems that McCarthy is really close to the "elite" level of coaching but he has to make the leap from "good" or as some around here would like to say "mediocre." Here's to hoping he can figure it out and get us there!

Like I said before these are only stats and can never explain the whole story. Take from this what you will.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Incredible!
UserPostedImage
Felipe7777777
14 years ago
Nice freakin idea and data collecting, bravo, real interesting too, thanks!
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mi_keys
14 years ago
+1 for the work, I always appreciate it when someone digs up as many statistics as you have to give us another viewpoint to look at what has happened.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Greg C.
14 years ago
Interesting stuff, and I agree with your conclusion that McCarthy falls short of being an "elite" coach. This is kind of a good companion piece to the article that somebody linked a few weeks ago, which demonstrated that Aaron Rodgers' lack of comeback wins is not really his fault. The problem seems to be a broader one with McCarthy's teams. Collectively, it seems like they just don't have the starch to win their share of close games.

The question is whether this means McCarthy is not the right guy to lead the Packers to a championship. I think he's shown a lot more good than bad in his time here, and he has almost certainly earned at least another year.
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millertime
14 years ago
+1. Thanks for this. Nice to have some data to support what we all know, the Pack will either blow a team out or lose by a FG.
14 years ago
Don't you just hate it on a message board when some guy lips off and you wind up doing all the resarch. You and some otthers can learn a few things but thee will always be somebody saying something without the facts.

The funny thing this season is the Packers had been leading in net points for many weeks but now dropped to 3rd (1st in NFC) and in net TD's they are second to Patriots.
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Fan Shout
wpr (14h) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.
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