I don't dispute that this is part of it. Perhaps a really big part of it.

But I do think despair is more complicated a problem, too. Unless one is a complete sociopath, one has desires both to "be unique" and to "belong." These desires, and their potential to conflict, don't go away just because we find ways to cope with them when the conflicts are infrequent or small.

But the problem with a society that emphasizes conformities too much is that those conflicts happen all the time and both big and small. And the conformity pressures force choice more often.

Choices that demand giving up one or the other essential part of the self.

Take me. In many ways, I'm the classic "do my own thing loner." I need a lot of quality time alone. Give me a book, give me a writing or research project, let me play with ideas or work a logic problem, and I am happy as I get. And I can't stand schmoozing or babbling talk that comes at most "social hours" and "networking ops" and "cocktail parties." When I go to such things I end up either being the wallflower, or getting in one long conversation with two other people, or getting drunk. I like quiet. I like silence. I like being away from people.

But at the same time, I need social contact in a way loners do not. I need deep conversations. I need people who respect my ideas, who listen to me rather than just dumping their negative "black hat" criticisms. I need to know that what I value is valued by others who I regularly work and interact with. And that's true not just of what I do "for them", but with respect to what I do when I'm off alone.

Over the years, I've had lots of advice from people. Most of it has taken two forms: Either they tell me to be less of a loner, less anti-social, less self-centered, etc. Or they tell me to worry less about what other people think of me, to just do my own thing and fuck the world, etc.

Almost all of that advice has been well-meaning. But what it has often done is encourage me to move more out of balance. I listen to the "less loner" talk as justification to withdraw more than I should; I listen to the "be more social" talk as justification to worry more about what other people think.

Or, and this can be even worse, but happens more often the older I get, I just respond "they don't just get it" and fail to listen to the advice I should be listening. And not listening, I get more out of whack.

And the farther out of whack I get, the more attractive submission to the despair demon becomes. And the worse my ability to judge becomes.

That's why I call it a demon -- the essence of despair is an impaired ability to judge. And its why "pulling oneself up by one's own bootstraps" is so problematic a solution for those suffering despair: bootstrapping requires a higher-than-normal level of judgment, and the sufferer's level of judgment is lower-than-normal.

To put it another way, despair (or its various "depression" cousins) is more than a lack of coping skills. When social standards for "coping" require not just "balancing" of one's essential needs, but requires us to choose between them, that's encouraging the demon's development.

If we tell people: "Starve without food. Or freeze without a winter coat. Choose," we're essentially telling them to choose the manner of their death.

That's why too much emphasis on social conformity is so dangerous. It tells the individual, 'You can do your own thing and we'll beat you up, or you can conform and kill a part of yourself."

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Nice post, Wade. I can somewhat empathize with you...I am 47, never married and no children, extremely particular about the people I invite into my life either as friends or romantic partners, and as a result, spend much time alone...which I generally do not mind, but it is not a preference. But, I am also a VERY social person...built in conflict.

For me, the greatest day in my life was the moment I realized I do not really give a shit about what people think of me...so I have eliminated that quandry from my life.

I have known despair, and borderline depression, from the loss of 9 of my closest and dearest friends during the time I was 16 - 30. Shut me down for a long time and inhibited my ability to make significant relationships.

I accept that for all the joy and beauty in life and this world, there will be equal parts pain. If one is only sold rainbows and sunbeams, and are not made aware of the reality of the world, they are being set up for something worse than despair and depression. I think most people accept the fact that pain and loss is a part of life, and not a crippling malady or death sentence. It is OK to hurt...it is part of life. I think for so many of these people...regardless of their source of pain/conflict....they were not prepared for it, and as a result, did not know what to do with the emotions or how to handle them. Unfortunate results of that frailty is what we see in the news now.

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i don't know if having a child prepared is all there is to it. i have twins with very different personalities & ways of dealing with things. they have had the same upbringing but are vastly different little guys.

my mom is an identical twin - she & her sister could not be more different in the way they've approached life.

heck my brother & i - we're both adopted from different families, raised by the same parents, in the same way. he's 2 years older than me & when bullies picked on him, I'M the one who beat them up. i've always been the 'strong' one in our family.

apparently it's part of our personalities from the time we're born how we deal with or don't deal with life in general. or maybe it's the roles we take on as we're growing up that make us the people we are today.

yes being prepared for pain & loss is important but is that all there is to it?

Personally, I think about 7/8 of the population in this country are a bunch of candy asses. And the 1/8 in the country I respect are living in nursing homes with dimensia.

I thought I had been through enough BS in my life with depression, alcohlosm, an abusive father, growing up in poverty, and putting up with 6 months of winter every year. But all that faded into nothing when in July my daughter came back into her ICU room with a 10 inch incision in the back of her skull. This situation really brought some focus back to my family's life. And in some ways, it has been a blessing no matter how unfair it is to Mia.

I find myself openly laughing at the fuss made over these pithy little political issues. What I really want to do is beat the shit out some of these blowhards in the media that think they have answers to offer.

I don't care if gay people want to get married, and I sure as hell don't support ostracising these people. Doesn't the world have enough ugliness in it, that we have to waste time, energy, and money on these trivial matters?

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wow...perspective brought to you by dakota!!

It was not my intention to make anybody feel bad or sorry for me. Sympathy belongs between shit and syphilis in the dictionary, and there only.

My intention was to mock this thread as frivilous BS that isn't worth some people's time who have real problems.

I am not impervious to empathy for any situation, but you better come with more substance than being in an unfair tax bracket or complaining about someone from another country doing a job you wouldn't be willing to do yourself.

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I often wonder if these "support" groups cause more problems than good. My personal thinking, most of them have too much time on their hands and need to find a real hobby.

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So they are basically hypocrites with nothing to do. Pretty good observation.

Volunteers are good, but my problem with most of them is that they need to find themselves on the front page of the paper too much. Ruins everything they are trying to accomplish.

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You never made a fuss over these issues prior to Mia (at least, not that I've experienced). So this is kinda a moot point.

Whether you like it or not, these 'pithy' little political issues, if not challenged, can morph this nation into something you wouldn't want Mia to grow up in. Hence the 'fuss' made over them.

How about this.. You worry about taking care of your baby girl and the rest of the ladies in your life (wifey, daughters), and let those of us with the passion for it worry about the pithy little political issues, mmk? 🙂

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That's fine Formo, keep letting them wag the dog, with whatever they come up with. You're the one enlightened. :thumbright:

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