lol.

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So in place of security check point, lay out a plan to keep mass air travel somewhat safe.

Keep in mind, that once past security checkpoint you are completely free again.

Also, keep in mind, even though in a perfect world we shouldn't have to have such an inconvenience, the way we allow people to come and go within this country, reality says, we have to take some measures to protect the masses in this mode of transportation.

And no.. being a citizen and a member of the military shouldn't make one above the normal process of going through security. Like it or not.. neither of those credentials make you less of a threat.

Lay out a plan to replace that existing process.

In my opinion, air travel, in which once up in the craft and in a greater risk to the passenger aboard or potential targets below.. security measures have to be in place and I think the checkpoints once in the process isn't that big of a deal.

Don't forget.. you are free.. you don't have to travel via the air.. you can drive and bypass it all. International travel.. stay home..

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yeah...in all seriousness, i'm a quarter Lebanese and when i grow my beard out long (as it is now) i look pretty close to the generic, naive, American idea of a Middle Eastern male terrorist (albeit tattooed and dressed as if he were in metal band) and i've never thought "man, if they stop me i'm going to be so pissed" but rather "weird, they let me through and stopped that whiter than white dude? lulz!" nor has it ever bothered me that the airport and airlines i'm flying with/through are taking extra precautions to protect ME from crashing directly into a fucking building for somebody else's ridiculous cause.

thank you, but i'll take a little inconvenience at the expense of the ability to continue living my natural life.

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Yeah for sure. Who's to say we don't have some Al Queda (sp) in the army or any service who are using their military background to skip through a checkpoint? Not only is that irresponsible to not check them equally, it'd be immensely embarrassing to have 'one of our own soldiers' desecrate us using our own uniform of 'protection'.

I don't mind the check in's at air ports all that much. The people in front of me who whine about things annoy me. And the people behind me who didn't plan well enough who feel they need to rush me are perturbing as well. LET ME GET MY DAMN SHOES WITHOUT BEING SHOVED ASSHOLE!

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Ok, I'll take the bait.

How many terrorists has the current system stopped?

How many millions of travelers have had to stand in line for how many hours?

What is the value of that time foregone?

Pollution sometimes causes cancer from which people die. Is the best amount of pollution no pollution? After all, we still have solar power.

Most of us have lost friends/family to drunk drivers. Is the best amount of drinking no drinking at all. After all, we still have lemonade.

People die in car accidents every day due to reckless and negligent and criminal drivers. Should we have checkpoints at every freeway onramp? After all, people can walk.

The burden of proof for an infringement of freedom should be upon the person seeking to infringe it, not on the person whose freedom is being infringed. IMO, those who passed the Patriot Act, those who implement it (for which responsibility goes far beyond the TSA, btw), have a burden to show that they're actually doing things that substantially reduce our risks.

Which, in fact, they've never done. Or never even seriously tried to do.

All they've done....ALL they've done ... is trade upon our worst fears.

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Just a bit of math by the way on the "no cost to security checkpoints":

USA per capita GDP: $45,000/yr. (Those who regularly travel tend to be above this number).
Typical work year: 2000 hours/yr.
Implicit average wage rate: $22.50/hr.
Number of air travelers per year: 800 million. (from FAA for 2007; 2010 is doubtless higher)
Average time to get thru security checkpoint: 15 minutes. (A WAG -- TSA "wait time calculator" is not available).

Put these together: .25 hours per person x 800 million x 22.50/hr:

Opportunity cost of TSA checkpoints (minimum): $4.5 billion/year.

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I've been through Minneapolis, Detroit, Chicago, Denver, Philadelphia, Washington Dulles and Dallas/Fort Worth and the worst was Denver at just over five minutes.

The more pertinent question I think is do the checkpoints stop terrorists? Would they have stopped 9/11? I'm a little naive/ignorant to the specifics, but I don't think the check points today would have prevented 9/11.

Check points are a pain, but in my experience a minor pain. The bigger pain is the douchebags who think they own the damn airline and push an shove their way through. Just wait your damn turn or come earlier.

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Here is the difference in my mind.

1. In a car, I as the driver have some control in the situation.. albeit it might not matter in some cases.. but I have some input into the cause and effect.

2. We are talking about 100 hundreds of peoples lives, if not thousands if crashed into a populated area.. is it really that much to ask for an extra half hour or so of your time?

3. Do you really think that they are going to publish just how many people or incidents possibly have been avoided because of the checkpoints.. if they did, it would invoke fear into the most popular method of long distance transportation in this country.. and the economic blow it would cause if the traffic declined.

4. You as a passenger upon a plane have a right to expect a safe flight.. the checkpoints are just a cog in that process..

I didn't see an alternative plan in your argument.. so am I to assume that there should be no security measures in place?

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Would the measures today have stopped 9/11?

Well it would have prevented them from have weapons or possible weapons to use to over take the aircrafts.. or at least in theory if done properly.

Add to it the cockpit security measures.. I think with the two it would make it safer and higher probability that some of them would have been prevented.

Now throw in the some flights have a armed federal agents aboard.. now the odds become greater.

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I have read enough... I have to insert my two cents. (without the pennies being checked mind you).


Non - Quit being so defensive. You freedom was not invaded or revoked what so ever. You are free to move about as you wish.

Flying to-in-from the U.S. is not a right. It is a priviledge. You don't have to do it. You don't have to enter the U.S.

Give me a few days and I can secure a passport and military ID that would rival yours....does that mean it should not be inspected? (hint: I was never in the armed forces)

Are the Packers taking away your rights when you go to Lambeau? I have to leave my car a good 15 minutes earlier to get to my seats because of the checkpoint as you enter the stadium. Have my freedoms been encroached upon? Hell no! I CHOSE to go to the game and this is part of what I agree to when I CHOOSE to go!

You wanna fly in US airspace? Fine, here is what it entails. Part of it is that IF you act, look, present anything suspicious you will get extra "love" from the TSA. Period. On top of that, I am sure they randomly pluck travelers out of line to give them the same 3rd degree. That keeps the terroist at bay because it means that no matter how much they have intel on how we decifer who to double check, then they can't be 100% clear.

Also, since you had your carry on taken apart, I would not be surprised if something DID show up on the scan as your bag went through. And before you go off, I am sure you didn't have anything but you might have had a couple of things together or on top of each other that looks suspicious when the scanner saw them. Happened to me once.


on the other issue....
We as a country started downhill in the early sixties. And I know this won't apeal to many but it is the case.

We kicked the very soul of our country out of it.


God.



Without him we are directionless. We were born with his word as our cornerstone (one nation, under God).

Our govenment was to be governed with the influence of God. Seperation of Church and state has been completely reversed. It should prevent the state from interfereing with the church and freedom of religion.

We as people have lost our moral direction which includes being thankful for what we have. To be thankful and content with what we have.

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