Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
TheEngineer
14 years ago
Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.
blank
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

"pack93z" wrote:



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.



Why is the person who committed the 'muff' (that sounds weird) charged with a fumble lost then?
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IronMan
14 years ago

Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.

"pack93z" wrote:



Why is the person who committed the 'muff' (that sounds weird) charged with a fumble lost then?


You said muff.

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Formo
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol
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Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Formo" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"TheEngineer" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!
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Formo
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Formo" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"TheEngineer" wrote:



My point is where are you getting those stats that say a player fumbled on a 'muffed' punt? Cross reference those stats with other sources and find out if they line up.
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Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Formo" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"TheEngineer" wrote:



I wish I knew that answer... much like I wish I knew how the NFL could have missed back to back penalties in the playoff game. Mistakes happen.


http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/11/laying-out-the-definition-of-a-muffed-punt/ 


During the third quarter of the Chargers/Steelers AFC divisional playoff game today, the Steelers picked up a loose ball and took it into the endzone for an apparent touchdown. Raise your hand if you knew it was coming back, despite the lack of a penalty.

Mine is raised. The rule is uniform across all levels of football.

On the play, Eric Weddle was engaged in a block on a punt to the Chargers. The punt ended up being a bit short of Chargers' returner, Darren Sproles. The football ended up hitting Weddle on the head. The Steelers then scooped up the ball, and ran it home.

What happened is defined as a muff. When a player touches the ball -- but does not gain possession -- he is said to have muffed the football. By rule, a muff can be recovered by the opposing team, but not advanced. This could happen in many different ways. Say the returner just drops the ball. That's a muff, and cannot be advanced. The entire key to the equation is possession. If the returner catches the ball and take two steps with it before fumbling, the return team can most certainly advance the football.

This situation could happen on a kickoff as well. If the ball hits off a member of the receiving team, the kicking team cannot advance the recovered football. If the receiving team gains possession, and then fumbles, it's perfectly legal to advance it.

Just remember the question, on punts and kickoffs: Did he possess the ball?



More so.. I am clearly wondering how the NFL scores the play now.. how can it be a fumble/turnover if he never establishes possession?

In the end.. it matters little how they score it other than advancing it.. but that is yet another argument for not scoring it a fumble/turnover.. since the reason it can't be advances is that the never established possession in the first place.

Call it a rule conundrum... lol.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Formo" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"Formo" wrote:



My point is where are you getting those stats that say a player fumbled on a 'muffed' punt? Cross reference those stats with other sources and find out if they line up.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



I just don't get why a muff punt is not a fumble, yet the person who commits the muff is charged with a fumble lost. And the player who recovers the muff is credited with a fumble recovery.

What's the reason for not calling a muff punt a fumble? Why should there be a difference?

A muffed ball can be advanced, and a fumble can not?


Side Note: This is one thing I despise about the NFL. Why so many rules? Why so complicated? The rules should be more clear cut and should be less of them. I'd prefer to see players outplaying one another than out 'shenanigan' someone by skirting certain rules.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
A muff can't be advanced.. a fumble can.

And it isn't a fumble because the receiving team never establishes possession.. how can you be charged a turnover if you never had the ball in the first place.

A punt is not like a kickoff.. the punting team maintains possession until the receiving team establishes possession.. hence why the receiving team can let the ball bounce and be downed by the kicking team.. they maintain possession until the touch it dead.

The reason for the difference is if it was a live ball (receiving teams possession at kick) the punting team could just punt away from the returner and challenge for recovery every time.. can you imagine the scrum that would become and the risk to injury to the players.. and if the receiving team dropped more back it would cause a imbalance at the line and more teams would fake punt it more often.

Which really leads me back to the scoring issue with the NFL.. it makes little sense with all things known above to score it a fumble.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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