Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago
Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
TheEngineer
15 years ago
Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.
blank
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

"pack93z" wrote:



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.



Why is the person who committed the 'muff' (that sounds weird) charged with a fumble lost then?
UserPostedImage
IronMan
15 years ago

Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.

"pack93z" wrote:



Why is the person who committed the 'muff' (that sounds weird) charged with a fumble lost then?


You said muff.

UserPostedImage
Formo
15 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Formo" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"TheEngineer" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!
UserPostedImage
Formo
15 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Formo" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"TheEngineer" wrote:



My point is where are you getting those stats that say a player fumbled on a 'muffed' punt? Cross reference those stats with other sources and find out if they line up.
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Formo" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"TheEngineer" wrote:



I wish I knew that answer... much like I wish I knew how the NFL could have missed back to back penalties in the playoff game. Mistakes happen.


http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/11/laying-out-the-definition-of-a-muffed-punt/ 


During the third quarter of the Chargers/Steelers AFC divisional playoff game today, the Steelers picked up a loose ball and took it into the endzone for an apparent touchdown. Raise your hand if you knew it was coming back, despite the lack of a penalty.

Mine is raised. The rule is uniform across all levels of football.

On the play, Eric Weddle was engaged in a block on a punt to the Chargers. The punt ended up being a bit short of Chargers' returner, Darren Sproles. The football ended up hitting Weddle on the head. The Steelers then scooped up the ball, and ran it home.

What happened is defined as a muff. When a player touches the ball -- but does not gain possession -- he is said to have muffed the football. By rule, a muff can be recovered by the opposing team, but not advanced. This could happen in many different ways. Say the returner just drops the ball. That's a muff, and cannot be advanced. The entire key to the equation is possession. If the returner catches the ball and take two steps with it before fumbling, the return team can most certainly advance the football.

This situation could happen on a kickoff as well. If the ball hits off a member of the receiving team, the kicking team cannot advance the recovered football. If the receiving team gains possession, and then fumbles, it's perfectly legal to advance it.

Just remember the question, on punts and kickoffs: Did he possess the ball?



More so.. I am clearly wondering how the NFL scores the play now.. how can it be a fumble/turnover if he never establishes possession?

In the end.. it matters little how they score it other than advancing it.. but that is yet another argument for not scoring it a fumble/turnover.. since the reason it can't be advances is that the never established possession in the first place.

Call it a rule conundrum... lol.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Formo" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"Formo" wrote:



My point is where are you getting those stats that say a player fumbled on a 'muffed' punt? Cross reference those stats with other sources and find out if they line up.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



I just don't get why a muff punt is not a fumble, yet the person who commits the muff is charged with a fumble lost. And the player who recovers the muff is credited with a fumble recovery.

What's the reason for not calling a muff punt a fumble? Why should there be a difference?

A muffed ball can be advanced, and a fumble can not?


Side Note: This is one thing I despise about the NFL. Why so many rules? Why so complicated? The rules should be more clear cut and should be less of them. I'd prefer to see players outplaying one another than out 'shenanigan' someone by skirting certain rules.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago
A muff can't be advanced.. a fumble can.

And it isn't a fumble because the receiving team never establishes possession.. how can you be charged a turnover if you never had the ball in the first place.

A punt is not like a kickoff.. the punting team maintains possession until the receiving team establishes possession.. hence why the receiving team can let the ball bounce and be downed by the kicking team.. they maintain possession until the touch it dead.

The reason for the difference is if it was a live ball (receiving teams possession at kick) the punting team could just punt away from the returner and challenge for recovery every time.. can you imagine the scrum that would become and the risk to injury to the players.. and if the receiving team dropped more back it would cause a imbalance at the line and more teams would fake punt it more often.

Which really leads me back to the scoring issue with the NFL.. it makes little sense with all things known above to score it a fumble.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (3h) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10
buckeyepackfan (4h) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.
Zero2Cool (10h) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice
wpr (11h) : I made it through the 1st Q.
dfosterf (19h) : Just gotta figure out how.
dfosterf (19h) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.
beast (20h) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Sooooooo many penalties
Mucky Tundra (20h) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist
Zero2Cool (21h) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!
Zero2Cool (21h) : Packers do good -- eh only preseason
dfosterf (21h) : Well that half was fun
Zero2Cool (22h) : Great, zayne is down
Zero2Cool (23h) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south
Mucky Tundra (9-Aug) : THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE PLAYING FOOTBALL TONIGHT!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!!
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Woo-hoo
TheKanataThrilla (9-Aug) : NFL Network is broadcasting the game tonight, but not in Canada. Not sure why as no local television is showing the game.
beast (8-Aug) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.
beast (8-Aug) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : *had to be IRed at 53
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before
beast (8-Aug) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season
beast (8-Aug) : But the Packers would have to use one for their return from IR spots on him, when they cut down to 53.
beast (8-Aug) : I think the NFL recently changed the IR rules, so maybe the season might not be over for OL Glover.
Zero2Cool (8-Aug) : Packers star Howton, first NFLPA prez, dies at 95 😔
dfosterf (8-Aug) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress
dfosterf (8-Aug) : Zero- Did you see what I posted about Voice of Reason and his wife? She posted over at fleaflicker that they are both "In"
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Well, not crazy, it makes sense. Crazy I didn't notice/find it earlier
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : it's crazy how one stored procedure to get data bogged everything down for speed here
dfosterf (7-Aug) : to herd cats or goldfish without a bowl. They reminded me of the annual assembly of our fantasy league
dfosterf (7-Aug) : out on a field trip, outfitting them with little yellow smocks. Most of the little folk were well behaved, but several were like trying
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Yesterday my wife and I spent the afternoon on the waterfront here in Alexandria, Va. A daycare company took about 15 three/four year olds
wpr (7-Aug) : seems faster. yay
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Wife of reason posted on the in/out thread on fleaflicker that both she and vor are in
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : This page was generated in 0.135 seconds.
Mucky Tundra (7-Aug) : Tbh, I can never tell the difference in speed unless it's completely shitting the bed
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Sure does feel like site is more snappy
Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : I thought that was the Lions OL
Mucky Tundra (6-Aug) : Travis Glover placed on IR; seasons over for him
Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : found bad sql in database, maybe site faster now?
dfosterf (5-Aug) : I'm going to call that a good move.
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Packers sign CB Corey Ballentine
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : I'm not sure how to kill the draft order just yet so it's not so confusing.
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : *to be able
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : and because it's not a dynasty league (which makes a lot more sense to be ability to trade picks)
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Oh I know; I was just exploring and it blew my mind that you could trade picks because of the whole reordering thing
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Zero, I think I preferred my offer: your 1st for my 15th rounder
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Keep in mind, we do a draft reorder once all members locked in
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : You can have my 12th Rd for your 2nd round
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
3h / Around The NFL / beast

4h / Fantasy Sports Talk / buckeyepackfan

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

11h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

16h / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

8-Aug / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

8-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

7-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

3-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

3-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

3-Aug / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

2-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.