Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
TheEngineer
14 years ago
Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.
blank
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

"pack93z" wrote:



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.



Why is the person who committed the 'muff' (that sounds weird) charged with a fumble lost then?
UserPostedImage
IronMan
14 years ago

Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.

"pack93z" wrote:



Why is the person who committed the 'muff' (that sounds weird) charged with a fumble lost then?


You said muff.

UserPostedImage
Formo
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Formo" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"TheEngineer" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!
UserPostedImage
Formo
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Formo" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"TheEngineer" wrote:



My point is where are you getting those stats that say a player fumbled on a 'muffed' punt? Cross reference those stats with other sources and find out if they line up.
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Formo" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"TheEngineer" wrote:



I wish I knew that answer... much like I wish I knew how the NFL could have missed back to back penalties in the playoff game. Mistakes happen.


http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/11/laying-out-the-definition-of-a-muffed-punt/ 


During the third quarter of the Chargers/Steelers AFC divisional playoff game today, the Steelers picked up a loose ball and took it into the endzone for an apparent touchdown. Raise your hand if you knew it was coming back, despite the lack of a penalty.

Mine is raised. The rule is uniform across all levels of football.

On the play, Eric Weddle was engaged in a block on a punt to the Chargers. The punt ended up being a bit short of Chargers' returner, Darren Sproles. The football ended up hitting Weddle on the head. The Steelers then scooped up the ball, and ran it home.

What happened is defined as a muff. When a player touches the ball -- but does not gain possession -- he is said to have muffed the football. By rule, a muff can be recovered by the opposing team, but not advanced. This could happen in many different ways. Say the returner just drops the ball. That's a muff, and cannot be advanced. The entire key to the equation is possession. If the returner catches the ball and take two steps with it before fumbling, the return team can most certainly advance the football.

This situation could happen on a kickoff as well. If the ball hits off a member of the receiving team, the kicking team cannot advance the recovered football. If the receiving team gains possession, and then fumbles, it's perfectly legal to advance it.

Just remember the question, on punts and kickoffs: Did he possess the ball?



More so.. I am clearly wondering how the NFL scores the play now.. how can it be a fumble/turnover if he never establishes possession?

In the end.. it matters little how they score it other than advancing it.. but that is yet another argument for not scoring it a fumble/turnover.. since the reason it can't be advances is that the never established possession in the first place.

Call it a rule conundrum... lol.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Formo" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"Formo" wrote:



My point is where are you getting those stats that say a player fumbled on a 'muffed' punt? Cross reference those stats with other sources and find out if they line up.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



I just don't get why a muff punt is not a fumble, yet the person who commits the muff is charged with a fumble lost. And the player who recovers the muff is credited with a fumble recovery.

What's the reason for not calling a muff punt a fumble? Why should there be a difference?

A muffed ball can be advanced, and a fumble can not?


Side Note: This is one thing I despise about the NFL. Why so many rules? Why so complicated? The rules should be more clear cut and should be less of them. I'd prefer to see players outplaying one another than out 'shenanigan' someone by skirting certain rules.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
A muff can't be advanced.. a fumble can.

And it isn't a fumble because the receiving team never establishes possession.. how can you be charged a turnover if you never had the ball in the first place.

A punt is not like a kickoff.. the punting team maintains possession until the receiving team establishes possession.. hence why the receiving team can let the ball bounce and be downed by the kicking team.. they maintain possession until the touch it dead.

The reason for the difference is if it was a live ball (receiving teams possession at kick) the punting team could just punt away from the returner and challenge for recovery every time.. can you imagine the scrum that would become and the risk to injury to the players.. and if the receiving team dropped more back it would cause a imbalance at the line and more teams would fake punt it more often.

Which really leads me back to the scoring issue with the NFL.. it makes little sense with all things known above to score it a fumble.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (1h) : He probably plays DB.
Zero2Cool (1h) : I don't even know who that Don is
packerfanoutwest (1h) : What position does Lemon play ?
dfosterf (2h) : I read this am that Don Lemon quit x, so there's that
Zero2Cool (13-Nov) : Seems some are flocking to BlueSky and leaving Tweeter. I wonder if BlueSky allows embeded lists
beast (12-Nov) : He's a review guy
Zero2Cool (12-Nov) : Jordy Nelson is still in the NFL.
Zero2Cool (11-Nov) : Ok, will do.
wpr (11-Nov) : Kevin, donate it to a local food pantry or whatever she wants to do with it. Thanks
wpr (11-Nov) : Kevin,
Zero2Cool (11-Nov) : Wayne, got your girl scout order.
dfosterf (11-Nov) : I believe Zero was being sarcastic
dfosterf (11-Nov) : Due to that rookie kicker Jake Bates that Zero said "he didn't want anyway". 58 yarder to tie the game, 52 yarder to win it. In fairness,
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Lions escape with a win
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : and now Goff looking better
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Goff with ANOTHER INT
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : and now Stroud throwing INTs
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Goff having an ATROCIOUS game
wpr (11-Nov) : Happy birthday Corps. Ever faithful. Thanks dfosterf.
Mucky Tundra (10-Nov) : stiff armed by Baker Mayfield for about 5-7 yards and still managed to get a pass off
Mucky Tundra (10-Nov) : Nick Bosa
wpr (8-Nov) : Jets are Packers (L)East
Zero2Cool (8-Nov) : Jets released K Riley Patterson and signed K Anders Carlson to the practice squad.
wpr (8-Nov) : Thanks guys
Mucky Tundra (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday wpr!
Zero2Cool (7-Nov) : Anders Carlson ... released by 49ers
dfosterf (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday!😊😊😊
wpr (7-Nov) : Thanks Kevin.
Zero2Cool (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday, Wayne! 🎉🎂🥳
beast (7-Nov) : Edge Rushers is the same... it's not the 4-3 vs 3-4 change, it's the Hafley's version of the 4-3... as all 32 teams are actually 4-2
Zero2Cool (6-Nov) : OLB to DE and player requests trade. Yet folks say they are same.
beast (5-Nov) : In other news, the Green Bay Packers have signed Zero2Cool to update their website 😋 jk
beast (5-Nov) : Might just re-sign the kicker we got
beast (5-Nov) : Are there any kickers worth drafting next year?
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Preston Smith for Malik Willis
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Getting a 7th rounder from the Stillers
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : At least we get 7th round pick now!! HELLO NEW KICKER
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Steelers getting a premier lockdown corner!
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Packers are trading edge rusher Preston Smith to the Pittsburgh Steelers, per sources.
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Preston Smith traded to the Steelers!!!!
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : CB Marshon Lattimore to Commanders
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Bears are sending RB Khalil Herbert to the Bengals, per sources.
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : ZaDarius Smith continues his "north" tour.
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Let the Chiefs trade a 5th for him
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Nearing 30, large contract, nope.
Martha Careful (5-Nov) : any interest in Marshon Lattimore?
Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : What does NFL do if they're over cap?
Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : They've been able to constantly push it out through extensions, void years etc but they're in the hole by 72 million next year I believe
hardrocker950 (4-Nov) : Seems the Saints are always in cap hell
Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : Saints HC job is not an envious one; gonna be in cap hell for 3 years
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
19h / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / civic

13-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

12-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

11-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

11-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

9-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / joepacker

8-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

6-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

6-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

5-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

5-Nov / GameDay Threads / Cheesey

5-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.