Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
TheEngineer
14 years ago
Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.
blank
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

"pack93z" wrote:



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.



Why is the person who committed the 'muff' (that sounds weird) charged with a fumble lost then?
UserPostedImage
IronMan
14 years ago

Per the NFL rulebook ... as I learned it.

Muff: The touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I would say this misruled the muff/fumble... per the way I learned the rule.. is that it is not a fumble because it never changed possession in legality.

"pack93z" wrote:



Why is the person who committed the 'muff' (that sounds weird) charged with a fumble lost then?


You said muff.

UserPostedImage
Formo
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Formo" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"TheEngineer" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!
UserPostedImage
Formo
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Formo" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"TheEngineer" wrote:



My point is where are you getting those stats that say a player fumbled on a 'muffed' punt? Cross reference those stats with other sources and find out if they line up.
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Formo" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"TheEngineer" wrote:



I wish I knew that answer... much like I wish I knew how the NFL could have missed back to back penalties in the playoff game. Mistakes happen.


http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/11/laying-out-the-definition-of-a-muffed-punt/ 


During the third quarter of the Chargers/Steelers AFC divisional playoff game today, the Steelers picked up a loose ball and took it into the endzone for an apparent touchdown. Raise your hand if you knew it was coming back, despite the lack of a penalty.

Mine is raised. The rule is uniform across all levels of football.

On the play, Eric Weddle was engaged in a block on a punt to the Chargers. The punt ended up being a bit short of Chargers' returner, Darren Sproles. The football ended up hitting Weddle on the head. The Steelers then scooped up the ball, and ran it home.

What happened is defined as a muff. When a player touches the ball -- but does not gain possession -- he is said to have muffed the football. By rule, a muff can be recovered by the opposing team, but not advanced. This could happen in many different ways. Say the returner just drops the ball. That's a muff, and cannot be advanced. The entire key to the equation is possession. If the returner catches the ball and take two steps with it before fumbling, the return team can most certainly advance the football.

This situation could happen on a kickoff as well. If the ball hits off a member of the receiving team, the kicking team cannot advance the recovered football. If the receiving team gains possession, and then fumbles, it's perfectly legal to advance it.

Just remember the question, on punts and kickoffs: Did he possess the ball?



More so.. I am clearly wondering how the NFL scores the play now.. how can it be a fumble/turnover if he never establishes possession?

In the end.. it matters little how they score it other than advancing it.. but that is yet another argument for not scoring it a fumble/turnover.. since the reason it can't be advances is that the never established possession in the first place.

Call it a rule conundrum... lol.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Remember that the play by plays for the NFL.com gameday scores isn't always reliable.

"Formo" wrote:



Play by plays for any sites are always reliable. Zero, read these posts!! lol

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



That doesn't explain anything that I'm asking.

If a muff punt is not a fumble, why does does the 'muffer' get charged a lost fumble and why does the player recovering the 'muff' get credited for a fumble recovery?

I'm not trying to argue either point here, I'm trying to freaking understand!

"Formo" wrote:



My point is where are you getting those stats that say a player fumbled on a 'muffed' punt? Cross reference those stats with other sources and find out if they line up.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



I just don't get why a muff punt is not a fumble, yet the person who commits the muff is charged with a fumble lost. And the player who recovers the muff is credited with a fumble recovery.

What's the reason for not calling a muff punt a fumble? Why should there be a difference?

A muffed ball can be advanced, and a fumble can not?


Side Note: This is one thing I despise about the NFL. Why so many rules? Why so complicated? The rules should be more clear cut and should be less of them. I'd prefer to see players outplaying one another than out 'shenanigan' someone by skirting certain rules.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
A muff can't be advanced.. a fumble can.

And it isn't a fumble because the receiving team never establishes possession.. how can you be charged a turnover if you never had the ball in the first place.

A punt is not like a kickoff.. the punting team maintains possession until the receiving team establishes possession.. hence why the receiving team can let the ball bounce and be downed by the kicking team.. they maintain possession until the touch it dead.

The reason for the difference is if it was a live ball (receiving teams possession at kick) the punting team could just punt away from the returner and challenge for recovery every time.. can you imagine the scrum that would become and the risk to injury to the players.. and if the receiving team dropped more back it would cause a imbalance at the line and more teams would fake punt it more often.

Which really leads me back to the scoring issue with the NFL.. it makes little sense with all things known above to score it a fumble.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (1h) : Tomorrow high 32° and low 19°
beast (8h) : Thanks Mucky!
Mucky Tundra (11h) : beast, forecast is looking like 27-28 degrees at kickoff, slight chance of snow flurries
Zero2Cool (14h) : Oh? It wasn't on the injury report. That sucks, but it's what is best.
packerfanoutwest (15h) : Doubs is out due to concussion
beast (17h) : What does the weather look like?
Martha Careful (21h) : You can wear long-johns mittens and a hat. We want Hill and their other skill guys FROZEN
Zero2Cool (26-Nov) : I'm not sure I hope for that. I'll be at the game.
Martha Careful (25-Nov) : I hope it is colder than a well-diggers ass on Thanksgiving night.
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
beast (25-Nov) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
Mucky Tundra (25-Nov) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Bears. Vikings. OT
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Thems the breaks I guess
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

14h / Featured Content / Martha Careful

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / GameDay Threads / Zero2Cool

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.