IronMan
14 years ago
Forget about the accusation of rape for a second.

Was there any evidence that he had sex with her? Because he told the police that he did NOT have sex with her.
Pack93z
14 years ago

Forget about the accusation of rape for a second.

Was there any evidence that he had sex with her? Because he told the police that he did NOT have sex with her.

"IronMan" wrote:



Actually the point I argued in the other thread, the facts points to a lie..

The guy is a loser than has to stoop to the clubs to get laid.. whether the other party is willing, drunk, or otherwise.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
14 years ago
From his statement... skirting the whole rape deal all together.

"As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

"Goodell" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
14 years ago

Since he's never been sentenced, I would've thought four to zero games would have been a good punishment.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I agree with this too. The freaking judicial system doesn't punish him, but his employer does? Just what did he do wrong?

I'm not saying he's innocent, but again not saying he's guilty either. With that said, I'm not sure how it's justified that he did something wrong if the court's didn't ... I just don't know.

I don't think the NFL should step in unless there's 100% proof of wrong doing or a conviction.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



He is being disciplined by his employer.. just as any employer can suspend /terminate you with just cause, even if it doesn't break the law.

As the employer, the NFL or Steelers are well within their rights to remove him from active employment if it breaks company policy or brings harm to the employer.

There is no doubt in my mind, guilty or not of a crime, Ben has brought harm to the NFL and the Steelers.

He, like anyone else can appeal this judgment.. I highly doubt that he would because he would risk further details being dragged out.

Why should ballers be any different than any other working citizen?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
IronMan
14 years ago

Forget about the accusation of rape for a second.

Was there any evidence that he had sex with her? Because he told the police that he did NOT have sex with her.

"pack93z" wrote:



Actually the point I argued in the other thread, the facts points to a lie..

The guy is a loser than has to stoop to the clubs to get laid.. whether the other party is willing, drunk, or otherwise.

"IronMan" wrote:

Yeah if there was evidence that they had sex, and he said they didn't.......not good.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

From his statement... skirting the whole rape deal all together.

"As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

"pack93z" wrote:

"Goodell" wrote:



I was going to post the same thing (as I just read it myself on another site) about the underage drinking and Ben's hand in it. That would be grounds for suspension for sure.

An employer can not terminate/suspend and employee without a reason. At least, that's been what has been shown in my experience. It's then labeled discrimination. What I've seen happen is reasons conjured up that are ill based and unfounded, which then leads to the employee (err former) getting compensation via unemployment.

If this was solely based on the alleged rape, I think that would send a very very bad message to people and the players. Being accused of something doesn't make you guilty. Remember, innocent until PROVEN guilty. If the NFL were to decide to simply suspend players based on an accusation, imagine the hell that would cause?

You'd have women hired by teams and placed in opportunistic locations to accuse the upcoming opponents players of wrong doing. The market for hookers would boom!

Hopefully it never comes to that. The suspension is deserving for Ben.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
14 years ago

Forget about the accusation of rape for a second.

Was there any evidence that he had sex with her? Because he told the police that he did NOT have sex with her.

"IronMan" wrote:



Actually the point I argued in the other thread, the facts points to a lie..

The guy is a loser than has to stoop to the clubs to get laid.. whether the other party is willing, drunk, or otherwise.

"pack93z" wrote:

Yeah if there was evidence that they had sex, and he said they didn't.......not good.

"IronMan" wrote:



You are going to hate me, because once you start clicking on the links--it is tedious, but somewhat fascinating as well. You have to scroll down to see the "sets of documents".

Pay careful attention to the lab report documents, especially the docs concerning her panties.

Pittsburgh Post Gazette links to GBI reports 

I apologize for not being able to direct you to which set it is in. I read them when they were first released.
djcubez
14 years ago
How many club related incidents did ii take Pacman to get a full-year suspension? At least six.

How many club related incidents has Roethlisberger had? Two.

I don't see why Roethlisberger got six games, it's kind of high. I mean Stallworth killed a dude and got a full season. Roethlisberger hasn't even been found guilty of anything yet except poor decision making.
ILikeThePackers39
14 years ago
Here's my take: He's not being suspended for rape or any other crime. He's being suspended for being an arrogant prick who clearly suffers from an out-sized sense of entitlement and doesn't feel that he should alter his behavior in any way to preserve the league's reputation.

None of us here can say definitively whether he raped or assaulted the woman. But there's more than enough evidence to say that he did sequester himself in a back room and arrange to have "talent" brought into said room. On the heels of a very public civil suit for similar behavior, it smacks of - if nothing else - a sense that his wants are more important to him than societal norms or the reputation of his employer(s).

So what I see Goodell doing is saying "Guess what, you little prick? You're NOT more important than this league, and if you intend to continue to play in this league you'll cut that shit out, and fly right." Given that my employer can fire me for little more than an unfortunate desk-fart, I don't see why Ben's entitled to anything other than what he's getting.

Bottom line, I don't see this is any statement as to the guilt or lack thereof in this specific instance - it's a response to a pattern of behavior which the league clearly sees as intolerable. And good on 'em for it, I say.
blank
IronMan
14 years ago

Here's my take: He's not being suspended for rape or any other crime. He's being suspended for being an arrogant prick who clearly suffers from an out-sized sense of entitlement and doesn't feel that he should alter his behavior in any way to preserve the league's reputation.

None of us here can say definitively whether he raped or assaulted the woman. But there's more than enough evidence to say that he did sequester himself in a back room and arrange to have "talent" brought into said room. On the heels of a very public civil suit for similar behavior, it smacks of - if nothing else - a sense that his wants are more important to him than societal norms or the reputation of his employer(s).

So what I see Goodell doing is saying "Guess what, you little prick? You're NOT more important than this league, and if you intend to continue to play in this league you'll cut that shit out, and fly right." Given that my employer can fire me for little more than an unfortunate desk-fart, I don't see why Ben's entitled to anything other than what he's getting.

Bottom line, I don't see this is any statement as to the guilt or lack thereof in this specific instance - it's a response to a pattern of behavior which the league clearly sees as intolerable. And good on 'em for it, I say.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:

+1
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (20h) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Will there be a tracker on the ball or something?
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