zombieslayer
14 years ago
Porforis - Wow. You're completely right, especially in the "border states." Illegals are killing this state's hospitals + schools.

Nonstop - It's not just Fayetteville. Yuppie parents everywhere suck. They think their kids are the most special creatures ever created and I hear horror stories from teachers who have to deal with their sorry asses five days a week. My condolences to your wife who had to put up with that bullshit, something that actually caused one of my relatives to die. That's actually really scary.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
14 years ago

As noble as providing healthcare for everyone might be, that is not the purpose of government.

If do-gooders want to ensure everyone has health insurance, they should band together out of the goodness of their hearts, open their own purses, and found organizations that can provide this service. Hell, I would cheerfully contribute to such an organization (my dream in life is to be a doctor who gives away healthcare to those who cannot afford to pay). But these people shouldn't be abusing the power of government fiat to force the rest of us to dip into our pockets to subsidize a service we do not agree with.

As Thomas Jefferson said, taxing someone to pay for something that is antithetical to his beliefs is the worst form of tyranny.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



We are the only post-industrial nation to believe that.

My argument is specifically about a public option - which the insurance companies attacked and got enough non-free thinking people to attack as well, so that they could see this massive potential profit materialize when a healthcare bill is passed without the public option. Private insurance companies are already forcing us to subsidize a service for others that we do not use, and healthcare costs have risen to the point that you absolutely need coverage. Private companies have the power, and their sole interest is ever-increasing profit. At least our government is representative. We have no say when it comes to these private companies who hold the real power in the country. Democracy my ass. Capitalism trumps "Democracy" (I realize we're not a true democracy) in America every day of the week. Health care is just another example of how "by the people for the people" has become "by the privileged for the privileged."

I honestly do not understand this irrational fear in representative government, yet complete blind trust in private for-profit business that has screwed us repeatedly, and very publicly, in the past years.
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Wow, I just now noticed PackFanWithTwins' description of the insurance float system. +1 to him for bringing up an issue I'd forgotten to mention previously. He's exactly right, of course. If insurance companies didn't invest the premiums they take in, they'd lose money. Many of the biggest investors are involved in the insurance industry; think Warren Buffett, who owns GEICO. Investing soundly is the only way these companies survive. Farmers Insurance likes to boast in their ads that they have a conservative investment strategy, that they don't invest in junk bonds or financial derivatives. Good for them.
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digsthepack
14 years ago
NSD...the stupid and incapable currently outnumber us, and they breed much more prolifically. We are basically 2 or 3 generations away from 2nd world status if things do not drastically change amonst the populace, let alone the corruption in Washington.

But, that is what happens when a society constantly caters to the lowest amongst them. Reawrd stupidity and punish achievement...fucking brilliant, you Ivy league losers!
State Motto: "Wisconsin, our serial murderers eat their kill!"
14 years ago

When you look at the amount of money insurance companies take in, to the amount they spend on claims. They all are either breaking even or negative.

Insurance companies do not make money directly from your premium. They make money by being able to invest the premiums for as long as possible. It is called FLOAT and it is the same way banks make money. They invest your money and delay claims as long as possible. For each day, hour, minute they have your money it is invested someplace. So all the profit that they are making is because of float, not because they are taking money and not paying out.

This is why no public option can work. Unless we are going to let the government into public investing also. If the government wants to get things under control, they need to go for the real problem and that is not insurance companies.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:



That conveniently ignores all other tactics used by insurance companies to maintain a healthy profit.
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Like what?

Benefits paid out > Premiums taken in. Investment is the only way these companies survive. That is the cold reality of the insurance industry, much as it may pain people to admit it.
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14 years ago

The Congressional mandate that emergency rooms must care for anyone who shows up at their doorstep, regardless of whether or not they're emergent cases, has been disastrous for hospitals. There isn't an emergency room in this country that actually makes money, because they end up having to write off the vast majority of the cases that show up to their door. How do the hospitals recoup the costs of these charity cases? By raising prices on patients in every other department, naturally.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



You do know what the most direct solution to the ER problem is, right? An intense focus on preventive medicine, which requires routine checkups, an efficient data management system, and universal health coverage to support it all.
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Porforis
14 years ago

As noble as providing healthcare for everyone might be, that is not the purpose of government.

If do-gooders want to ensure everyone has health insurance, they should band together out of the goodness of their hearts, open their own purses, and found organizations that can provide this service. Hell, I would cheerfully contribute to such an organization (my dream in life is to be a doctor who gives away healthcare to those who cannot afford to pay). But these people shouldn't be abusing the power of government fiat to force the rest of us to dip into our pockets to subsidize a service we do not agree with.

As Thomas Jefferson said, taxing someone to pay for something that is antithetical to his beliefs is the worst form of tyranny.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



We are the only post-industrial nation to believe that.

Private insurance companies are already forcing us to subsidize a service for others that we do not use, and healthcare costs have risen to the point that you absolutely need coverage. Private companies have the power, and their sole interest is ever-increasing profit.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



See the last 40 posts where we discuss just how much profit health insurance companies and hospitals make. If you're going to bitch at health insurance companies pulling 4% and 8% profits, I simply won't be able to agree with you.

Government has the power, and has been exercising its power to regulate private companies. Banking, Auto industry, transportation, now healthcare. If you're going to say that private companies SOLE INTEREST is ever-increasing profit, government's sole interest is ever-increasing power. Power trumps profit every time.

Government is the ultimate monopoly - It makes the rules, can print or borrow all the money it wants and pass the consequences off onto others. What scares me is when there's zero history of efficiency when the government's competed or otherwise made a dive into the private sector (Post office competition with FedEx, Medicare come to mind), the government is TRYING (successfully or not) to set up their own health insurance company with the power to force you to join it.

No company has or ever will have that power.

At least our government is representative. We have no say when it comes to these private companies who hold the real power in the country. Democracy my ass. Capitalism trumps "Democracy" (I realize we're not a true democracy) in America every day of the week. Health care is just another example of how "by the people for the people" has become "by the privileged for the privileged."

I honestly do not understand this irrational fear in representative government, yet complete blind trust in private for-profit business that has screwed us repeatedly, and very publicly, in the past years.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



Because the banking collapse was not at all affected by government meddling. Read up on the Community Reinvestment Act. Also, I don't see anybody here showing "blind trust in private for-profit business". If I missed it, please point it out.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

You do know what the most direct solution to the ER problem is, right? An intense focus on preventive medicine, which requires routine checkups, an efficient data management system, and universal health coverage to support it all.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



No, it requires personal responsibility and healthy lifestyles to obviate the need for routine healthcare.

The average health insurance plan for my family would be in excess of $900/month. I couldn't imagine coming up with $900 worth of reasons to use the healthcare industry per month. I take care of myself and my family, and we don't need that kind of health access. And this is despite the fact I have a pair of premature twins, one of whom is chronically immune compromised. When he's sick, as he often is, I take care of him. I don't rush him to the doctor.
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Porforis
14 years ago

You do know what the most direct solution to the ER problem is, right? An intense focus on preventive medicine, which requires routine checkups, an efficient data management system, and universal health coverage to support it all.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



No, it requires personal responsibility and healthy lifestyles to obviate the need for routine healthcare.

The average health insurance plan for my family would be in excess of $900/month. I couldn't imagine coming up with $900 worth of reasons to use the healthcare industry per month. I take care of myself and my family, and we don't need that kind of health access. And this is despite the fact I have a pair of premature twins, one of whom is chronically immune compromised. When he's sick, as he often is, I take care of him. I don't rush him to the doctor.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



OOC, is that 900/month going solo or through your company? How many kids do you have?
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