vegOmatic
15 years ago
The world owes me a living. Obama says so.
blank
Porforis
  • Porforis
  • 100% (Exalted)
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
I think I've come up with a perfect, flawless solution. Let's all run for congress. I'm sure we have multiple people in various districts in WI, obviously Zero would be president. We can all vote for eachother. FLAWLESS VICTORY, M I RITE?
Dulak
  • Dulak
  • 100% (Exalted)
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

every single politician is a crook. every pharmaceutical company, every insurance company, every person who faked workmans comp claims, & every person who went to the emergency room for a paper cut are to blame for the disaster the medical insurance in the u.s.a. has become. i have no f'in clue how to fix it because until people & companies become honest, it'll never work!

"4PackGirl" wrote:



I had to laugh at this ... in a way I feel that perhaps this is true.

sounds like what packgirl is saying is - all the above is out to make money at the expense of others.

- everytime I drive in to chicago and I see these huge/lavish insurance company buildings I think to myself. They must be making ALOT of money.
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Alan and Shawn, open heart surgery and amputations are exactly the kinds of catastrophic situations health insurance was meant to cover. Colds, flus, and birth control aren't. The reason why you struggle to get coverage for your situations is that the insurance companies are paying out untold billions for routine complaints to people with no- and low-deductible insurance plans.

Can you imagine how prohibitively expensive auto insurance would be if we were able to abuse it the way the average person abuses health insurance? I pay about $1200 per year for auto insurance. The average health insurance plan for my family is in excess of $900 per MONTH!
UserPostedImage
zombieslayer
15 years ago
Dulak - The sad thing is they are making a lot of money. The lawyers and the insurance companies are making more money than the doctors. You're seeing a lot of qualified Americans who no longer want to be doctors because it's not worth it.

For example John Edwards made millions suing hospitals. Guess how the hospitals recoup that money lost? That's right, raising their prices on us.

4Pack - And thus is why I'm for term limits. You put in term limits, you kill the idea of career politicians and cut back on corruption, and bring some fresh blood and fresh ideas in there.

Nonstop - Once again, agreed.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago
When you look at the amount of money insurance companies take in, to the amount they spend on claims. They all are either breaking even or negative.

Insurance companies do not make money directly from your premium. They make money by being able to invest the premiums for as long as possible. It is called FLOAT and it is the same way banks make money. They invest your money and delay claims as long as possible. For each day, hour, minute they have your money it is invested someplace. So all the profit that they are making is because of float, not because they are taking money and not paying out.

This is why no public option can work. Unless we are going to let the government into public investing also. If the government wants to get things under control, they need to go for the real problem and that is not insurance companies.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
The Congressional mandate that emergency rooms must care for anyone who shows up at their doorstep, regardless of whether or not they're emergent cases, has been disastrous for hospitals. There isn't an emergency room in this country that actually makes money, because they end up having to write off the vast majority of the cases that show up to their door. How do the hospitals recoup the costs of these charity cases? By raising prices on patients in every other department, naturally.

People abuse the emergency wards everyday because they know ERs are open 24/7, and they can't be turned away regardless of how minor their complaints are. So they bring cases that should be treated at urgent care or in the clinic, because they can't be bothered to seek care during normal business hours (despite the fact that most urgent care clinics are open till 9:00 or even 11:00 p.m.!). It is my firm belief that emergency wards should be able to responsibly triage patients who walk in and refer the non-emergent cases to urgent care or the health clinic. If that means the parent has to take a few hours off work, fine -- that's one of the responsibilities of parenthood.

The day I realized how bad the situation is was the day some parent brought in a child to the ER because she had a "scraped thumb" and we had to treat the child like any other patient. But what really brought it home for me personally was the day I had to bring my wife into the ER for vaginal bleeding due to miscarriage. She had to wait over seven hours before she was brought into an examination room and still another hour before she was treated, because that day the ER was packed to overflowing with parents who had brought in their kids for sniffles and sneezes. This was during the height of the SARS scare, you see, and the egomaniacal parents of Fayetteville, North Carolina, were convinced their precious little babies must have SARS. So instead of doing the responsible thing and taking their children to the health clinic on Monday, they insisted on bringing them into the ER on Saturday. Meanwhile my wife, who under emergency medicine protocols should have been a high-priority patient, had to sit around the entire day waiting for care. Assholes.

The next time you wonder why the hospitals charge you $60 per tablet of Tylenol, blame these irresponsible people who are exercising their Congressionally mandated "human right to healthcare."
UserPostedImage
zombieslayer
15 years ago
Nonstop - The border states also have to treat illegals who have no medical insurance, and it would be easier for hospitals to squeeze water out of a rock than a dime out of an illegal.

My mother worked in a hospital that closed several years later due to the simple fact it couldn't make money, and in this particular case, it was directly due to illegals.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I updated my post with a personal anecdote that you probably missed, Zombieslayer 😉
UserPostedImage
Porforis
  • Porforis
  • 100% (Exalted)
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
Kudos to NSD for hitting the economics of the health insurance and healthcare industries right on the nose. Health insurance companies don't make a crapton of money (relative to other companies in other sectors), most hospitals make jack shit. Pharmaceutical companies are the ones that make all the money, however they also drive innovation with a lot of research. However, they also pocket a lot of that money. If you're going to go after someone for gouging, how about Big Pharmaceutical, not Big Health Insurance?

The entire health insurance industry needs reform. What people want is free healthcare, not free health insurance. I'd be reluctantly OK with the government subsidizing catastrophic health insurance for people that can't have it, however as NSD hit right on the head, that's not what people want the health insurance for.

We don't live in a perfect world, there's simply not enough resources going around to make this economy work if we mandate too much more crap on top of it and increase taxes. What we really need is a serious immigration policy - EVERY citizen needs to prove that they're legally supposed to be here at the next census. If you're not, you're being deported. If you get arrested and you're not supposed to be here, you're deported. If you come back again and get arrested again, you go to prison. While reducing or eliminating illegal immigrants will not fix all or most of our problems, it will remove a huge burden on the healthcare and public education systems. It will also help with unemployment... although the cynical side of me says that most people would rather just ride unemployment than take a minimum wage job picking cabbages.
zombieslayer
15 years ago
Porforis - Wow. You're completely right, especially in the "border states." Illegals are killing this state's hospitals + schools.

Nonstop - It's not just Fayetteville. Yuppie parents everywhere suck. They think their kids are the most special creatures ever created and I hear horror stories from teachers who have to deal with their sorry asses five days a week. My condolences to your wife who had to put up with that bullshit, something that actually caused one of my relatives to die. That's actually really scary.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
MassPackersFan
15 years ago

As noble as providing healthcare for everyone might be, that is not the purpose of government.

If do-gooders want to ensure everyone has health insurance, they should band together out of the goodness of their hearts, open their own purses, and found organizations that can provide this service. Hell, I would cheerfully contribute to such an organization (my dream in life is to be a doctor who gives away healthcare to those who cannot afford to pay). But these people shouldn't be abusing the power of government fiat to force the rest of us to dip into our pockets to subsidize a service we do not agree with.

As Thomas Jefferson said, taxing someone to pay for something that is antithetical to his beliefs is the worst form of tyranny.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



We are the only post-industrial nation to believe that.

My argument is specifically about a public option - which the insurance companies attacked and got enough non-free thinking people to attack as well, so that they could see this massive potential profit materialize when a healthcare bill is passed without the public option. Private insurance companies are already forcing us to subsidize a service for others that we do not use, and healthcare costs have risen to the point that you absolutely need coverage. Private companies have the power, and their sole interest is ever-increasing profit. At least our government is representative. We have no say when it comes to these private companies who hold the real power in the country. Democracy my ass. Capitalism trumps "Democracy" (I realize we're not a true democracy) in America every day of the week. Health care is just another example of how "by the people for the people" has become "by the privileged for the privileged."

I honestly do not understand this irrational fear in representative government, yet complete blind trust in private for-profit business that has screwed us repeatedly, and very publicly, in the past years.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Wow, I just now noticed PackFanWithTwins' description of the insurance float system. +1 to him for bringing up an issue I'd forgotten to mention previously. He's exactly right, of course. If insurance companies didn't invest the premiums they take in, they'd lose money. Many of the biggest investors are involved in the insurance industry; think Warren Buffett, who owns GEICO. Investing soundly is the only way these companies survive. Farmers Insurance likes to boast in their ads that they have a conservative investment strategy, that they don't invest in junk bonds or financial derivatives. Good for them.
UserPostedImage
digsthepack
15 years ago
NSD...the stupid and incapable currently outnumber us, and they breed much more prolifically. We are basically 2 or 3 generations away from 2nd world status if things do not drastically change amonst the populace, let alone the corruption in Washington.

But, that is what happens when a society constantly caters to the lowest amongst them. Reawrd stupidity and punish achievement...fucking brilliant, you Ivy league losers!
State Motto: "Wisconsin, our serial murderers eat their kill!"
MassPackersFan
15 years ago

When you look at the amount of money insurance companies take in, to the amount they spend on claims. They all are either breaking even or negative.

Insurance companies do not make money directly from your premium. They make money by being able to invest the premiums for as long as possible. It is called FLOAT and it is the same way banks make money. They invest your money and delay claims as long as possible. For each day, hour, minute they have your money it is invested someplace. So all the profit that they are making is because of float, not because they are taking money and not paying out.

This is why no public option can work. Unless we are going to let the government into public investing also. If the government wants to get things under control, they need to go for the real problem and that is not insurance companies.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:



That conveniently ignores all other tactics used by insurance companies to maintain a healthy profit.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Like what?

Benefits paid out > Premiums taken in. Investment is the only way these companies survive. That is the cold reality of the insurance industry, much as it may pain people to admit it.
UserPostedImage
MassPackersFan
15 years ago

The Congressional mandate that emergency rooms must care for anyone who shows up at their doorstep, regardless of whether or not they're emergent cases, has been disastrous for hospitals. There isn't an emergency room in this country that actually makes money, because they end up having to write off the vast majority of the cases that show up to their door. How do the hospitals recoup the costs of these charity cases? By raising prices on patients in every other department, naturally.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



You do know what the most direct solution to the ER problem is, right? An intense focus on preventive medicine, which requires routine checkups, an efficient data management system, and universal health coverage to support it all.
UserPostedImage
Porforis
  • Porforis
  • 100% (Exalted)
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

As noble as providing healthcare for everyone might be, that is not the purpose of government.

If do-gooders want to ensure everyone has health insurance, they should band together out of the goodness of their hearts, open their own purses, and found organizations that can provide this service. Hell, I would cheerfully contribute to such an organization (my dream in life is to be a doctor who gives away healthcare to those who cannot afford to pay). But these people shouldn't be abusing the power of government fiat to force the rest of us to dip into our pockets to subsidize a service we do not agree with.

As Thomas Jefferson said, taxing someone to pay for something that is antithetical to his beliefs is the worst form of tyranny.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



We are the only post-industrial nation to believe that.

Private insurance companies are already forcing us to subsidize a service for others that we do not use, and healthcare costs have risen to the point that you absolutely need coverage. Private companies have the power, and their sole interest is ever-increasing profit.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



See the last 40 posts where we discuss just how much profit health insurance companies and hospitals make. If you're going to bitch at health insurance companies pulling 4% and 8% profits, I simply won't be able to agree with you.

Government has the power, and has been exercising its power to regulate private companies. Banking, Auto industry, transportation, now healthcare. If you're going to say that private companies SOLE INTEREST is ever-increasing profit, government's sole interest is ever-increasing power. Power trumps profit every time.

Government is the ultimate monopoly - It makes the rules, can print or borrow all the money it wants and pass the consequences off onto others. What scares me is when there's zero history of efficiency when the government's competed or otherwise made a dive into the private sector (Post office competition with FedEx, Medicare come to mind), the government is TRYING (successfully or not) to set up their own health insurance company with the power to force you to join it.

No company has or ever will have that power.

At least our government is representative. We have no say when it comes to these private companies who hold the real power in the country. Democracy my ass. Capitalism trumps "Democracy" (I realize we're not a true democracy) in America every day of the week. Health care is just another example of how "by the people for the people" has become "by the privileged for the privileged."

I honestly do not understand this irrational fear in representative government, yet complete blind trust in private for-profit business that has screwed us repeatedly, and very publicly, in the past years.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



Because the banking collapse was not at all affected by government meddling. Read up on the Community Reinvestment Act. Also, I don't see anybody here showing "blind trust in private for-profit business". If I missed it, please point it out.
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

You do know what the most direct solution to the ER problem is, right? An intense focus on preventive medicine, which requires routine checkups, an efficient data management system, and universal health coverage to support it all.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



No, it requires personal responsibility and healthy lifestyles to obviate the need for routine healthcare.

The average health insurance plan for my family would be in excess of $900/month. I couldn't imagine coming up with $900 worth of reasons to use the healthcare industry per month. I take care of myself and my family, and we don't need that kind of health access. And this is despite the fact I have a pair of premature twins, one of whom is chronically immune compromised. When he's sick, as he often is, I take care of him. I don't rush him to the doctor.
UserPostedImage
Porforis
  • Porforis
  • 100% (Exalted)
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

You do know what the most direct solution to the ER problem is, right? An intense focus on preventive medicine, which requires routine checkups, an efficient data management system, and universal health coverage to support it all.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



No, it requires personal responsibility and healthy lifestyles to obviate the need for routine healthcare.

The average health insurance plan for my family would be in excess of $900/month. I couldn't imagine coming up with $900 worth of reasons to use the healthcare industry per month. I take care of myself and my family, and we don't need that kind of health access. And this is despite the fact I have a pair of premature twins, one of whom is chronically immune compromised. When he's sick, as he often is, I take care of him. I don't rush him to the doctor.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



OOC, is that 900/month going solo or through your company? How many kids do you have?
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (5h) : Oh wait, they got Cam Ward. 1st overall right? haha oops
Zero2Cool (5h) : They could send Packers a 1st for a QB they are familiar with
Zero2Cool (5h) : Titans QB Will Levis to have season-ending shoulder surgery
Zero2Cool (19-Jul) : Their season did kind of start there, so 🤷
dfosterf (19-Jul) : Eagles put an engraved Brazil flag on their super bowl rings
Zero2Cool (18-Jul) : Benton unsigned no more
Zero2Cool (17-Jul) : That's good analysis, yes you are getting old. It'd a blessing!
dfosterf (14-Jul) : *analysis* gettin' old
dfosterf (14-Jul) : One of the best analyisis I"ve ever watched at this time of an offseason
dfosterf (14-Jul) : Andy Herman interviewed Warren Sharp on his Pack a day podcast
packerfanoutwest (10-Jul) : Us Padres fans love it....But it'll be a Dodgers/Yankees World Series
Zero2Cool (9-Jul) : Brewers sweep Dodgers. Awesome
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : And James Flanigan is the grandson of Packers Super Bowl winner Jim Flanigan Sr.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : Jerome Bettis and Jim Flanigans sons as well!
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Thomas Davis Jr is OLB, not WR. Oops.
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Larry Fitzgeral and Thomas Davis sons too. WR's as well.
Mucky Tundra (5-Jul) : Kaydon Finley, son of Jermichael Finley, commits to Notre Dame
dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!
Zero2Cool (3-Jul) : My cousin, yes.
dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?
Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade
dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

20-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

20-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

18-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

15-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

14-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

10-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-Jul / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

6-Jul / Random Babble / Martha Careful

4-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

2-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

2-Jul / Fantasy Sports Talk / dfosterf

1-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.