Zero2Cool
15 years ago
That's what I was saying in the chat too. That IronMan is not often wrong and that's why I was questioning my own understanding of what I was reading in black and white. Which also is the problem I have, not the outcome of the play or the review, it's the rules themselves that bother me.

Get this ..
[ul]Rule 8,
Section 1,
Article 3,
Item 1[/ul]

That means, to me, there is several sections for each rule, with an article for each section and an item for each section of each rule. That is WAY too much crap for my liking.
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4PackGirl
15 years ago
i still think it's a touchdown. they are interpreting the rule because it's so f'd up it doesn't give a clear, concise answer.

what a joke this league is becoming. can't touch the qb, can't graze the facemask, can't even appear to enjoy a touchdown, can't really tackle someone hard without a fine, etc... (i know this has nothing to do with the jennings td - just ranting, that's all)
Pack93z
15 years ago


The issue with going to ground is if you catch it and you are being tackled as you catch it as was the case with that Oakland receiver.

"IronMan" wrote:




If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play, or in the end zone.

"mi_keys" wrote:



Rule 8. Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 



This is correct if the players hasn't established "control"... control is dictated with two steps.

So to me, it all comes down to whether Jennings has control of the ball and makes two steps.. which to me he does.

The rule you have highlighted is for a player that hasn't established control prior to hitting the turf... IE Louis Murphy.

They didn't change the control ruling.. just the control factor of a player going to the ground.

Hence the confusion that the refs are having with the ruling.. this isn't the first call being challenged with the variable added to the rule this past off season.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
wils0646
15 years ago


The issue with going to ground is if you catch it and you are being tackled as you catch it as was the case with that Oakland receiver.

"pack93z" wrote:




If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play, or in the end zone.

"IronMan" wrote:



Rule 8. Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 

"mi_keys" wrote:



This is correct if the players hasn't established "control"... control is dictated with two steps.

So to me, it all comes down to whether Jennings has control of the ball and makes two steps.. which to me he does.

The rule you have highlighted is for a player that hasn't established control prior to hitting the turf... IE Louis Murphy.

They didn't change the control ruling.. just the control factor of a player going to the ground.

Hence the confusion that the refs are having with the ruling.. this isn't the first call being challenged with the variable added to the rule this past off season.



From Bedard:

According to a league spokesman, referee Mike Carey correctly applied Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 of the NFL Rule Book (page 51) correctly when it came to Greg Jennings' non-touchdown against the Chicago Bears:

"If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact with an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."

The timing of when contact was made by Bears CB Charles Tillman was the determining factor.

"The key is that the receiver was contacted by the defender before he got both feet down so he is therefore considered to be going to the ground and has to hold on to the ball throughout the whole process," the spokesman said.



It still makes the ruling confusing. What happens if the player is contacted before for 3-4-5 steps with the ball. I see no reason why they'd call it incomplete there.
The Pack Will Be Back.
Pack93z
15 years ago


The issue with going to ground is if you catch it and you are being tackled as you catch it as was the case with that Oakland receiver.

"wils0646" wrote:




If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play, or in the end zone.

"pack93z" wrote:



Rule 8. Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 

"IronMan" wrote:



This is correct if the players hasn't established "control"... control is dictated with two steps.

So to me, it all comes down to whether Jennings has control of the ball and makes two steps.. which to me he does.

The rule you have highlighted is for a player that hasn't established control prior to hitting the turf... IE Louis Murphy.

They didn't change the control ruling.. just the control factor of a player going to the ground.

Hence the confusion that the refs are having with the ruling.. this isn't the first call being challenged with the variable added to the rule this past off season.

"mi_keys" wrote:



From Bedard:

According to a league spokesman, referee Mike Carey correctly applied Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 of the NFL Rule Book (page 51) correctly when it came to Greg Jennings' non-touchdown against the Chicago Bears:

"If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact with an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."

The timing of when contact was made by Bears CB Charles Tillman was the determining factor.

"The key is that the receiver was contacted by the defender before he got both feet down so he is therefore considered to be going to the ground and has to hold on to the ball throughout the whole process," the spokesman said.



It still makes the ruling confusing. What happens if the player is contacted before for 3-4-5 steps with the ball. I see no reason why they'd call it incomplete there.



If that is the interpretation.. then it is the silliest damn thing I ever read.. once the player has established control.. it is a catch.. contact or not.

Sometimes the competition committee is too ambiguous in the ruling.. or they should just leave the rules that have worked for 50 years in tact..

My understanding when reading the rule is this ground contact factor is for a player that is still establishing control.. IMO.. Jennings established it with three steps with a secured ball..

The source, IMO.. is covering for a mistake.. or increasing the drag net on this.. a piss poor job of isolating when the ground comes into play.

On your comment.. I agree.. if they are using this ground ruling on clear catches.. what stops a player or team from challenging a fumble within 3 to 5 steps after the catch is made.. on can refer back to this ruling.

Hence why the control factor is, as I understand it, separate from this rule if the player has established control already.. verses a player in the act of gaining control.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dhazer
15 years ago

The rule and no it doesnt stop just because he got 2 feet down.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 of the NFL Rule Book (page 51) states that if a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact with an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or in the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

"dhazer" wrote:






Damn i can never get any credit or maybe that most of the posters have me on ignore but i stated that way back on page 3 😛
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
reed
Pack93z
15 years ago

The rule and no it doesnt stop just because he got 2 feet down.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 of the NFL Rule Book (page 51) states that if a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact with an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or in the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

"dhazer" wrote:






Damn i can never get any credit or maybe that most of the posters have me on ignore but i stated that way back on page 3 :P

"dhazer" wrote:



It is still invalid as the first time you brought it up.. if a player establishes control prior to going to the ground.. this ruling doesn't come into effect..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dhazer
15 years ago
people have to remember these refs probably have 5-8 different angels to see the play and can go frame by frame, unlike us. I still have to watch the replay and try and stop it and see
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
reed
Pack93z
15 years ago

people have to remember these refs probably have 5-8 different angels to see the play and can go frame by frame, unlike us. I still have to watch the replay and try and stop it and see

"dhazer" wrote:



They only have access to the TV replays.. so how is that different than what we seen.. albeit, Fox didn't replay it many times.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

people have to remember these refs probably have 5-8 different angels to see the play and can go frame by frame, unlike us. I still have to watch the replay and try and stop it and see

"dhazer" wrote:



Are you sure about this? I read somewhere, need to find it again, that they have the same views we see on TV, but can choose which one to review when they want. Like, show me angle 1 again, slower, etc ...
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