buckeyepackfan
15 years ago
I like this thread, one thing to remember is that guys like Unitas ans Starr called their own plays. True field generals, Starr did have a whole lot of talent playing with him...lol
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DakotaT
15 years ago

Well, I'm 50/50 with you. I think guys like Bradshaw, Big Ben, Brad Johnson, and Eli rode good teams to the SB.

I think Marino and Fouts were on bad teams.

I think Brady and Montana elevated good teams to win the big one.

And yes, while I readily admit that Manning is an incredible passer and has been elite almost every year he's played, people forget just how good of Ds he's been on because he's been the face of that team for so long.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Maybe Brady is as good as you think, and I just hate him cause he used to get all the premo tail. Pretty boy quarterbacks should get cheap shotted once a game just for being overly blessed in life.

I think people forget just how good of a defense the 49ers used to have.
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dhazer
15 years ago
One thing you are forgetting though Rock and that is Rodgers is putting up those numbers against teams like the Lions and Bears and Vikes twice a year and Ben has to face Baltimore and Cinci and Cleveland plus usually NE and Indy. The one thing they do have in common is that they both hold the ball to long, Rodgers takes sacks and Ben breaks free and tries to make tough plays which sometime turn into Ints.



i wonder if this is Rock lol


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reed
zombieslayer
15 years ago



Maybe Brady is as good as you think, and I just hate him cause he used to get all the premo tail. Pretty boy quarterbacks should get cheap shotted once a game just for being overly blessed in life.

I think people forget just how good of a defense the 49ers used to have.

"DakotaT" wrote:



Heh. Yes, pretty boy jocks have the world going for them. I won't argue that. My own mother is a Patriots fan only because Tom Brady is good looking. Does that make me sick? Of course it does. But still, I try to be impartial when judging. Note the word "try." I don't think anyone really can, but I do my best.

When I was growing up, same thing with Joe Montana. The chicks loved him. I was in the San Francisco area for most of his SB years.

How good was their D? Pretty dang good. Montana was on four SB teams and they won all four of them. Let's rank their Ds:

1981 - #2 in the NFL
1984 - #1 in the NFL
1988 - #8 in the NFL
1989 - #3 in the NFL

So yeah, does a QB get too much credit? Sure. I've always said that if you have a #1 D, all you need is a top 50% QB and the SB can often be yours. Let's not forget that the only perfect team in the SB era won a SB with their #1 QB going down and their backup throwing only 11 passes for 88 yards. It's easy to win games when you're only allowing 12 points per game.

I used to hate the cliche defense wins championships and tried my best to disprove it, but in the process of trying to disprove it, I found it is indeed correct.
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DakotaT
15 years ago


I used to hate the cliche defense wins championships and tried my best to disprove it, but in the process of trying to disprove it, I found it is indeed correct.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



We must always remember that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are Super Bowl winning quarterbacks, and they do not belong in the same breath as they greats we have discussed. My top ten go like this

Elway
Favre
Marino
Manning
Montana
Unitas
Starr
Brady
Bradshaw
Tarkenton (for you Formo)

Mannning and Brady will probably rise on the list in time. Elway gets tops because of his cannon and the fact that he took absolute dog shit to super bowls.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

Myth: Dan Marino had no defense.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the leagues No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). Thats a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marinos playing days.

Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense.

In Marinos record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the leagues No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game.

Theres no doubt Marino played with some poor defenses in his day, but thats the price of playing in the league 17 years. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts show that he also played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.

"CHFF" wrote:



Another interesting quote from that article:

Myth: Marino had to carry the Dolphins himself.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Few quarterbacks in NFL history have been surrounded by more talent than Marino.

In his 17-year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl. Marino himself was named a Pro Bowler nine times. Thats a remarkable 64 Pro Bowl players, or nearly four for every season Marino spent in the NFL. Four times in Marinos career, the Dolphins boasted five or more Pro Bowl players in a single season. Compare that with New Englands two Super Bowl teams, which had a total of just five Pro Bowl players.

Marino also had the rare luxury of joining a team that had played in the Super Bowl the year before he arrived. He also played most of his career for the winningest coach in NFL history, Don Shula.

Shula has quite a resume. Working with quarterbacks Bob Griese, Earl Morrall and Johnny Unitas, he led the Colts and Dolphins to five Super Bowls in 15 years. Over the next 13 seasons, working with Marino, he appeared in just one more Super Bowl. He lost.

If any quarterback in NFL history walked into an ideal situation in which to win a Super Bowl, it was Dan Marino.



http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=57 
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Slightly off topic, Peyton Manning just passed, in his 12th season, John Elway for third all time on the completions list. It took Elway 16 seasons to set that mark.
UserPostedImage
15 years ago

Well, I'm 50/50 with you. I think guys like Bradshaw, Big Ben, Brad Johnson, and Eli rode good teams to the SB.

I think Marino and Fouts were on bad teams.

I think Brady and Montana elevated good teams to win the big one.

And yes, while I readily admit that Manning is an incredible passer and has been elite almost every year he's played, people forget just how good of Ds he's been on because he's been the face of that team for so long.

"DakotaT" wrote:



Maybe Brady is as good as you think, and I just hate him cause he used to get all the premo tail. Pretty boy quarterbacks should get cheap shotted once a game just for being overly blessed in life.

I think people forget just how good of a defense the 49ers used to have.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Ever since the Patriots picked up Moss and Welker, Brady has had the easiest job in the NFL. Plus he has one of the NFL's best minds coaching the team. All he has to do is run the system. I hardly ever (never?) see him make spectacular plays. He never had 30 TD's in a season until Moss/Welker showed up.
He's a good QB, especially when things are going well. I'm with you though. I really don't think he's special. I bet you could have taken 10 or 15 QB's who were active in the league at the time he gained the starting position, put him on that team with that coach, and they would have been successful.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

Well, I'm 50/50 with you. I think guys like Bradshaw, Big Ben, Brad Johnson, and Eli rode good teams to the SB.

I think Marino and Fouts were on bad teams.

I think Brady and Montana elevated good teams to win the big one.

And yes, while I readily admit that Manning is an incredible passer and has been elite almost every year he's played, people forget just how good of Ds he's been on because he's been the face of that team for so long.

"DakotaT" wrote:



Maybe Brady is as good as you think, and I just hate him cause he used to get all the premo tail. Pretty boy quarterbacks should get cheap shotted once a game just for being overly blessed in life.

I think people forget just how good of a defense the 49ers used to have.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Er, isn't "pretty boy quarterback" a bit redundant these days? I mean, can you imagine any current NFL quarterback choosing Delta House over Omega? Quarterbacks are all pretty boys. Even the fugly ones like Peyton.

Signed,
Neidermeyer.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Even after seeing those modeling pics, I struggle tying pretty boy with Cutler or Big Ben lol
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