Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

He's a good QB, especially when things are going well. I'm with you though. I really don't think he's special. I bet you could have taken 10 or 15 QB's who were active in the league at the time he gained the starting position, put him on that team with that coach, and they would have been successful.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



+1. I used to make this same argument all the time, but I eventually gave up. The only answer I ever got was "Three rings -- nyah!" It's pointless to argue when people's sole definition of greatness is jewelry.

I maintain, and always will, that there have been plenty of awesome quarterbacks fucked over by bad teams, and plenty of mediocre quarterbacks who have shined on amazing teams. Just as there have been talented running backs fucked over by bad teams . . . and plenty of cornerbacks . . . and linemen . . . but no one ever talks about that.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago



We must always remember that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are Super Bowl winning quarterbacks, and they do not belong in the same breath as they greats we have discussed. My top ten go like this

Elway
Favre
Marino
Manning
Montana
Unitas
Starr
Brady
Bradshaw
Tarkenton (for you Formo)

Mannning and Brady will probably rise on the list in time. Elway gets tops because of his cannon and the fact that he took absolute dog shit to super bowls.

"DakotaT" wrote:



OK, very fair list. I'd actually put Montana, Young, Favre, Brady, Elway, Manning, Marino, Fouts as my best that I've seen (in that order). Bradshaw, I only caught the tail end of his career. Same with Tarkenton. Unitas and Starr before my time.

But Brady was ahead of Favre until this year. Brees will be on that list unless he gets hurt (knock on wood, I hate seeing players get hurt). I can see Brees passing Fouts easily and possibly Marino by the time he's done.

This is the best team Favre has been on since the mid-90s and this year is his shot at redemption for the crap he's done this decade. Brady gets points taken from him for flubbing '07.

In defense of Fouts, he's been on some really, really bad teams. If you look at the years he's led the teams, it looks like a bad joke. Keep in mind this is out of 28 teams. Chargers D from 78 on (when Coryell took over):
'78 - 21, '79 - 2, '80 - 18, '81 - 26, '82 - 24, '83 - 28, '84 - 24, '85 - 25, '86 - 24, '87 - 15.

Ouch! Let's put any other QB on teams with Ds that bad and see how many games they can win. Yet in '81, Fouts took a team with the 3rd worst D in the NFL to the Championship Game. If that isn't an accomplishment, what is?

And yes, Young deserves to be #2. Only won one SB but by the time he took over the Niners, they were already descending while the Cows and the Packers were ascending. Best all around QB I've ever seen. Huge heart, scrambled with the best of them, but he took some beatings, one of which costed him his career.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
zombieslayer
15 years ago


Er, isn't "pretty boy quarterback" a bit redundant these days? I mean, can you imagine any current NFL quarterback choosing Delta House over Omega? Quarterbacks are all pretty boys. Even the fugly ones like Peyton.

Signed,
Neidermeyer.

"Wade" wrote:



No. Jay Cutler, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, and Ben R are not attractive men by any means. Tom Brady has a face that belongs on the cover of GQ.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
zombieslayer
15 years ago


+1. I used to make this same argument all the time, but I eventually gave up. The only answer I ever got was "Three rings -- nyah!" It's pointless to argue when people's sole definition of greatness is jewelry.

I maintain, and always will, that there have been plenty of awesome quarterbacks fucked over by bad teams, and plenty of mediocre quarterbacks who have shined on amazing teams. Just as there have been talented running backs fucked over by bad teams . . . and plenty of cornerbacks . . . and linemen . . . but no one ever talks about that.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Nonstop - See my defense of Dan Fouts as one of the greatest QBs I've ever seen. Also note that Troy Aikman is nowhere on my list, despite the fact he has 3. I think any of the top 10 QBs those years could have won it with those teams.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago


And yes, Young deserves to be #2. Only won one SB but by the time he took over the Niners, they were already descending while the Cows and the Packers were ascending. Best all around QB I've ever seen. Huge heart, scrambled with the best of them, but he took some beatings, one of which costed him his career.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Nope. Sorry. No lawyer can be allowed to rank that high.

That's like allowing Belichek on the list of "great coaches" despite his love of reading economics articles.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
15 years ago


And yes, Young deserves to be #2. Only won one SB but by the time he took over the Niners, they were already descending while the Cows and the Packers were ascending. Best all around QB I've ever seen. Huge heart, scrambled with the best of them, but he took some beatings, one of which costed him his career.

"zombieslayer" wrote:




I just have to call BS on this one. Good quarterback that used athleticism to make up for a weak arm. You have him as number 2? Camelot was a good dynasty but come on.

And how can't Jeff Garcia make the list of fugly quarterbacks.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago



Nope. Sorry. No lawyer can be allowed to rank that high.

That's like allowing Belichek on the list of "great coaches" despite his love of reading economics articles.

"Wade" wrote:



He's now a lawyer?

Steve Young sucks and was overrated and only won a Super Bowl because he was on a solid team.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
zombieslayer
15 years ago



I just have to call BS on this one. Good quarterback that used athleticism to make up for a weak arm. You have him as number 2? Camelot was a good dynasty but come on.

And how can't Jeff Garcia make the list of fugly quarterbacks.

"DakotaT" wrote:



I lived in SF and watched Young every weekend when the Packers weren't on. Young's passes were as accurate as they come.

Dan Fouts had a weak arm. Didn't change the fact that he's one of the best QBs I've ever watched.

Jeff Garcia is a could have been. Was always injured. And yes, he's ugly.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Rockmolder
15 years ago

One thing you are forgetting though Rock and that is Rodgers is putting up those numbers against teams like the Lions and Bears and Vikes twice a year and Ben has to face Baltimore and Cinci and Cleveland plus usually NE and Indy. The one thing they do have in common is that they both hold the ball to long, Rodgers takes sacks and Ben breaks free and tries to make tough plays which sometime turn into Ints.



i wonder if this is Rock lol


[youtube]zdK72SqMShk[/youtube]

"dhazer" wrote:



Yeah, because Cinci and Cleveland are powerhouses.

Cincinnati has had one of the weakest defenses in the league for years. That was always their problem, combined with the running game. They've always had a potent offense with Palmer. That they're playing well this year, doesn't take away from the fact that that was one of the team he could feast on for years.

And the Browns? Seriously? I could QB against the Browns and get a respectable rating.

I'll give you Baltimore, but they're digressing a little now.... much like the Bears.

He usually has to play Indi or NE, as they're one of the division winners each year. Tell me this, though, which of the NFC East teams has a worse defense than those teams? And we have to play one of them each year.

I don't think that you can put a lot of this on SoS over the years. It's going to be about the same. The Browns and Lions are pulling it down bigtime, the Vikings and Ravens are pulling it up, and the Bengals and Bears are your average .500 teams.

Oh, and maybe I'm missing something, but why would that be me? Lol.
porky88
15 years ago
I'm curious to how some would rank the quarterbacks in today's league. Before the year, Rodgers was kind of in the same category as Jay Cutler, but now that's not even up for debate.... Is it?

I think Rodgers has separated himself from Jay Cutler, Tony Romo, and now Matt Schaub as just a superior player. Cutler may have more physical talent, but he's way too much of a gunslinger. At least when Brett Favre did it, he eventually learned to make it a positive rather than a negative, but Cutler's throws are all over the place. His skills are great, but raw.

To me the QBs today look like this

Elite
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Brett Favre

You really can't separate them right now. I would take Brady because of his consistency. The older Manning gets, the better he seems to get. Brees is definitely going to lead the way into the next decade in my view. Favre is ridiculous.

Upper Echelon
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Phillip Rivers
7. Aaron Rodgers

I think Ben leads that class much like Brady leads his class because I would want them with the ball with two minutes left, but it's close. I think Rodgers and Rivers are interchangeable. I can't decide really. They both do things so good and both are playing for two of the better offensive coaches or quarterback coaches in the league behind Sean Payton.

Good to Very Good

8. Donovan McNabb
9. Carson Palmer
10. Kurt Warner

I see McNabb as someone who has always been good, but never great. He had TO that one year, but TO has made a lot of QBs look great such as Jeff Garcia and Tony Romo. Still, he's consistently in the top ten.

Palmer would've been in the same category as Rodgers, Rivers, and Roethlisberger, but injuries have stalled him and he still hasn't been the same type of player since.

Warner, I always felt like was a nice quarterback, but needed big time receivers to play well. He has never had success without potential HOF receivers. Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt in St. Louis and now Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin in Arizona. It doesn't diminish him like some think it might, but it is who he is IMO.

I guess my point to this post is that look how far Rodgers has come since the start of the season at least on my list. I had him outside of the top ten because I wanted to see him do it again. He has and then some, so I'm not Rodgers bashing. In only his second full season, he's starting to separate himself. He's better than Romo, Schaub, Cutler, E. Manning, and right now, my guy, Matt Ryan. He's also passed veterans like McNabb, Palmer, and Warner.

So maybe Ben is next :)

That, in my view, speaks for itself.
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