Well, I'm 50/50 with you. I think guys like Bradshaw, Big Ben, Brad Johnson, and Eli rode good teams to the SB.

I think Marino and Fouts were on bad teams.

I think Brady and Montana elevated good teams to win the big one.

And yes, while I readily admit that Manning is an incredible passer and has been elite almost every year he's played, people forget just how good of Ds he's been on because he's been the face of that team for so long.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Maybe Brady is as good as you think, and I just hate him cause he used to get all the premo tail. Pretty boy quarterbacks should get cheap shotted once a game just for being overly blessed in life.

I think people forget just how good of a defense the 49ers used to have.

"DakotaT" wrote:

I used to hate the cliche defense wins championships and tried my best to disprove it, but in the process of trying to disprove it, I found it is indeed correct.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Myth: Dan Marino had no defense.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the leagues No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). Thats a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marinos playing days.

Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense.

In Marinos record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the leagues No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game.

Theres no doubt Marino played with some poor defenses in his day, but thats the price of playing in the league 17 years. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts show that he also played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.

"CHFF" wrote:

Myth: Marino had to carry the Dolphins himself.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Few quarterbacks in NFL history have been surrounded by more talent than Marino.

In his 17-year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl. Marino himself was named a Pro Bowler nine times. Thats a remarkable 64 Pro Bowl players, or nearly four for every season Marino spent in the NFL. Four times in Marinos career, the Dolphins boasted five or more Pro Bowl players in a single season. Compare that with New Englands two Super Bowl teams, which had a total of just five Pro Bowl players.

Marino also had the rare luxury of joining a team that had played in the Super Bowl the year before he arrived. He also played most of his career for the winningest coach in NFL history, Don Shula.

Shula has quite a resume. Working with quarterbacks Bob Griese, Earl Morrall and Johnny Unitas, he led the Colts and Dolphins to five Super Bowls in 15 years. Over the next 13 seasons, working with Marino, he appeared in just one more Super Bowl. He lost.

If any quarterback in NFL history walked into an ideal situation in which to win a Super Bowl, it was Dan Marino.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

"zombieslayer" wrote: