nerdmann
15 years ago

I don't believe McCathy has lost this team but if the losing ways continue, I'm thinking he might.
He has pretty much lost me. If I watch "Locker Room Live" this week and he utters "clean up" or "fix" (Supply any words) I just may smash my tv.

"yooperfan" wrote:




Good ones! Drink every time he says that!
I agree. He's losing fan support. These losses were very personal for all of us who had his back. He's let us down big time, not by losing, but by embarrassing us.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

Break down of the penalties from this last game

D, Jolly Personal Foul (unexcusable)
ST, Poppinga Holding (Typical)
D, Montgomery Neutral Zone (I question this call)
ST, Barbre Holding (Typical)
O, Lang holding offset (Questionable. Defender fell more than held)
D, Raji facemask (Shit happens penalty)
O, Barbre Holding (Normal Oline play, some called some not)

Hopefully this is a start of a trend. 7 penalties called 6 counted. Had Clifton been in the game, would have been about 11.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:




Yeah really. This is actually a small number, comparatively. I also discount the one on Jolly. It was a backbreaker, but more of a reputation call, imo.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

Good points Evad.

We sorely missed Jermichael to exploit the midfield seams like he did in the 1st game. The lack of protection also didn't help on a few of the sacks.

"wils0646" wrote:




I find it difficult to believe that none of OUR WRs could get open at all in the first half. Not only that, but if the cover 2 is taking away slants, then go ahead and hit the TEs. Run some F'n screens.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

If you don't think he's lost the team. Check out the penalties and the comments being said in the locker room.

He's lost or at least losing his grip on this team. A coach in control of his team doesn't average more than 8 penalties a game. Mind you, the same penalties each week for nearly four seasons.

I'll also add in, he needs to coach to his teams strengths. Short, quick passing game.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:


OMFG!

OMFG!

OMFG!

JEsus F'in CHRIST!

Zero -- if you have the power, please find a film tape of last night's game with a camera angle that shows the entire fiield.

Then we can have a little Cover 2 defense lesson.

Listen here boys, and listen closely: this game is too complex for simple statements like he needs to get rid of the ball quicker or that we need to emphasize the short passing game. In the first half, the Vikes almost exclusively rushed four guys, and behind that ran a Tampa 2 like zone shell. That means there were 4 rushers, and 7 in coverage. A few of the sacks against Rodgers in the first half were instances where there were at least 2 or 3 of those passing options in intermediate-short passing routes (hitches, curls, flats, comeback routes, etc.). Rodgers would go through his progression. Nothing would be there. Result -- sack, or incompletion.

The idea that we were just looking "downfield" and that McCarthy coached a piss poor first half is I PROMISE ON MY FUCKING MOTHER'S LIFE a simple, easy, quick way out of the situation that isn't indicative of the truth: it's a fucking cop out, guys.

What changed, is that in the second half, it started to work. We were able to hit up the cover 2 in the seems. We were able to spread the ball around. McCarthy talks about "rhythm" in the offense. Don't be so quick to brush that aside. In the first half we had no rhythm. Simply, we couldn't string together many successful plays in a row. It was a combination of the play being called, Minnesota reacting damn near perfect (getting pressure with four, locking up the receiving targets with EXCELLENT underneath coverage), and Green Bay failing to execute. If ANYTHING we should have tried to get the ball downfield in the seams of Cover 2 MORE in the first half. This idea that McCarthy was stubborn and trying to force it downfield in the first half (and thus why our offense was anemic) is completely fallacious. Barring one stupid Rodgers bomb off play action (the one into double coverage) we actually seemed to try pretty hard to develop the quick passing game. It wasn't there in the first half. Not everything is an issue of playcalling! Sometimes defenses simply "click" and good things happen for them. Are we forgetting this is the game of football we are watching?

In the second half things worked, but it isn't as simple as saying "why weren't we doing that in the first half! wahhh... fire McCarthy." That is such an eerily simplistic analysis of a game that, let's be honest, to play or coach at this level requires a substantial knowledge that we the superfans don't know. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand it -- hell, I think we should. But I can promise you, things like "we need the quick passing game" fail on all accounts -- like the account of reality. The short stuff is hard to find against a Cover 2 defense -- particularly when it is a good defense. But that didn't stop us from trying to get the quick passing game going. I promise you, go back and watch the game.

/rant

I need a fucking drink. And it's 11 am.

"evad04" wrote:

You need to calm down. Immediately.

Penalties that we have every week, that are said to be cleaned up. Coaching failure.

What short passing game includes 5 and 7 step drops? What I'm saying is we need more 3 step drop passing plays. AKA, a short quick passing game. Does that mean I think I'm a head coach? offensive coordinator? No. It means that I think we should use that as we've done in the past with great success.

Mike McCarthy says Aaron Rodgers is very coach able. Yet, there were a few times he had a dumpoff and held the ball too long and took a sack instead of passing it short or running for it. (I think he didn't run much because of his foot issue from the last two weeks).

"Zero2Cool" wrote:




Pam Oliver talked to MM at halftime. MM said "Maybe we should try more 3 step drops." LOL. Yeah, maybe.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

You quoted me and I didn't see the distinction of saying others. I seen 'zero' in there on two posts in which I was quoted.

I am saying if Mike McCarthy doesn't get this team back on track, he needs his position evaluated at the end of the year. I even said, not right now, firing him now is not the right thing.

I'm not saying CAN THE SEASON SCREW IT! I think we still have a chance, but the coach needs to coach better or for two years in a row we're going to see the same problems again. That's one issue I have with him. Another is the OL scheme. I've harped on this for a long time. When we lost Jeff Jagsawhatever, I feel we should have ditched the ZBS too. We don't have anyone who's an expert teaching the scheme. Hell, Campen didn't even play in the scheme he's trying to teach.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:




Evad's a troll. I think he's just trying to get a rise out of everyone. He's acting like we all want MM fired tomorrow.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago



Yeah, I have about exhausted myself on this issue as well. We are a potent offense because of the vertical threat component and I have said repeatedly that the defensive scheme dictates what the offense runs.

The bottom line is Cover 2 is the way to play us right now especially for a team that has a stout run defense.

This was a tough spot for us Sunday. You have a first year player at LT, a first year starter at RT, a first year starter at one of the G spots, and Wells in there instead of Spitz. Now you look across the LOS and see who they have over there.

Sure, I would like the 0line to play a little better but that's not even what cost us this game.

1) Special Teams. Specifically kickoff coverage although they got a punt return back to the 49 too.
2) The head butt. Four points
3) Missed FG
4) failed two point conversion- that was a walk in.

In big games little things make a huge difference. Both teams were making plays out there so when you have a chance to score or make a stop and give up three vs. seven you got to do it.

Jolly doesn't make that bone head play and Crosby hits instead of missing the FG and we're winning at that point. Whole different ball game and yet what we need to do is change the offensive philosophy and probably fire all the coaches.

"evad04" wrote:


+1

Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.

"warhawk" wrote:




That's fine. We can make those plays, but we still have Dlinemen coming unblocked, because our Oline doesn't know who their guy is. We still have the QB and RBs tripping over each other like keystone kops in the backfield. We still have ridiculous penalties.
We still have a consistently underperforming offense which starts out most games, and seemingly ALL hugely important games UGLY.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

Warhawk, evad, you guys act as if Mike McCarthy has no control over what happens on the field. HE IS THE HEAD COACH. HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENS ON THE FIELD.

"IronMan" wrote:




If the offense had bad players, it wouldn't bother me so much. If they were bad but playing above their heads and still screwing up, it would be completely different.
But that's not how it is. The Packers continue to underwhelm. They play consistently beneath their talent level. Maybe it's just because they are perpetually "the youngest team in the league." But it's just getting old. You can't be rebuilding forever.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

I think they attempted the blitzing but it failed.

We tried to put pressure on them with blitzes, Packers cornerback Charles Woodson said. And [Favre] either pointed them out and set the protection the right way, or threw the ball quick and we werent able to get to him. We felt like we had enough things called -- and still we cant get to him for whatever reason. Right now we cant win the big game.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:




They did blitz more often, but the Queens made some plays in those situations. Still, THE DEFENSE DID NOT COST US THIS GAME.
This game was lost in the first half by the offense. Largely by Rodgers.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

In defense of the - well, the defense, and the folks who are trying to calm us down a little: there's a difference between having a bad D and playing a team with a superior O. I'm going to suggest that what we saw was the latter.

Minnesota's line is getting better by the game - I said before the season that the time to get to Favre was early in the season, and I think that's turning out to be far more prophetic than I would have liked.

Favre owned Capers. He has done it before. It happens.

Not a bad D - just overmatched by a very, very good O.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




Favre didn't "own" Capers. Make them start out on their own 20 (or inside of that like we consistently did) and the defense stops them consistently. Give them the ball at midfield or in our own territory, and you won't even stop the Buccaneers. Let's be real.
This loss is on the OFFENSE. They didn't show up in the first half.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

I don't think I have bitched about the defense either. I think I said, "They are what they thought they were", or somesuch. They are. (The Vikes)

Overall, I was pleased with our D.

That keystone cops play included. That was quite Favre-esque, lol

Point is, not for a moment did I think anything but that this would require some serious offensive firepower to pull off.

Instead what happened to a large degree was a complete perfect storm of setting up our defense to fail...Both from our offense and our special teams.

Jolly--- I could kill that motherfucker right about now for that, plus his comments... I didn't need those comments---I think a PART of me understands all that, both the head butt and the stupid comments post-game, whenever.

Johnny, you might not have cost us this game, as you say, but in the speculation department, there is such an animal as momentum and home field advantage.......................that shit was a MAJOR fuck up, pal.

Defensively that 3rd 17 and the 3rd and 11---- Ouch. Over it, though.


We ALMOST overcame that Jolly penalty...THAT would have been amazing, I tell ya.

Favre and his play or some comparison contrasts or "what-ifs"

Complete bullshit, still. I enjoyed playing that son of a bitch. I just wanted to beat him. :thumbleft:

The Vikings played like they had Brett's back.

The Packers played like they didn't have Aaron's.

That is what many see, not just me.

"dfosterf" wrote:




Aaron threw his jock out on the field in the first half. He has no one to blame but himself.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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