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Martha Careful
9 months ago
Matt Taibbi, who I greatly respect, wrote:

Why the TikTok Ban is So Dangerous
Did they tell you the part about giving the president sweeping new powers?

It’s funny how things work.

Last year at this time, Americans overwhelmingly supported a ban on TikTok. Polls showed a 50-22% overall margin in support of a ban and 70-14% among conservatives. But Congress couldn’t get the RESTRICT Act passed.

As the public learned more about provisions in the bill, and particularly since the outbreak of hostilities in Gaza, the legislative plan grew less popular. Polls dropped to 38-27% in favor by December, and they’re at 35-31% against now.

Yet the House just passed the “Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act” by a ridiculous 352-64 margin, with an even more absurd 50-0 unanimous push from the House Energy and Commerce Committee. What gives?

As discussed on the new America This Week, passage of the TikTok ban represents a perfect storm of unpleasant political developments, putting congress back fully in line with the national security establishment on speech. After years of public championing of the First Amendment, congressional Republicans have suddenly and dramatically been brought back into the fold. Meanwhile Democrats, who stand to lose a lot from the bill politically — it’s opposed by 73% of TikTok users, precisely the young voters whose defections since October put Joe Biden’s campaign into a tailspin — are spinning passage of the legislation to its base by suggesting it’s not really happening.

“This is not an attempt to ban TikTok, it’s an attempt to make TikTok better,” is how Nancy Pelosi put it. Congress, the theory goes, will force TikTok to divest, some kindly Wall Street consortium will gobble it up (“It’s a great business and I’m going to put together a group to buy TikTok,” Steve Mnuchin told CNBC), and life will go on. All good, right?

Not exactly. The bill passed in the House that’s likely to win the Senate and be swiftly signed into law by the White House’s dynamic Biden hologram is at best tangentially about TikTok.

You’ll find the real issue in the fine print. There, the “technical assistance” the drafters of the bill reportedly received from the White House shines through, Look particularly at the first highlighted portion, and sections (i) and (ii) of (3)B:
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

As written, any “website, desktop application, mobile application, or augmented or immersive technology application” that is “determined by the President to present a significant threat to the National Security of the United States” is covered.

Currently, the definition of “foreign adversary” includes Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China.

The definition of “controlled,” meanwhile, turns out to be a word salad, applying to:

(A) a foreign person that is domiciled in, is headquartered in, has its principal place of business in, or is organized under the laws of a foreign adversary country;

(B) an entity with respect to which a foreign person or combination of foreign persons described in subparagraph (A) directly or indirectly own at least a 20 percent stake; or

(C) a person subject to the direction or control of a foreign person or entity described in subparagraph (A) or (B).

A “foreign adversary controlled application,” in other words, can be any company founded or run by someone living at the wrong foreign address, or containing a small minority ownership stake. Or it can be any company run by someone “subject to the direction” of either of those entities. Or, it’s anything the president says it is. Vague enough?

As Newsweek reported, the bill was fast-tracked after a secret “intelligence community briefing” of Congress led by the FBI, Department of Justice, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI). The magazine noted that if everything goes as planned, the bill will give Biden the authority to shut down an app used by 150 million Americans just in time for the November elections.

Say you’re a Democrat, however, and that scenario doesn’t worry you. As America This Week co-host Walter Kirn notes, the bill would give a potential future President Donald Trump “unprecedented powers to censor and control the internet.” If that still doesn’t bother you, you’re either not worried about the election, or you’ve been overstating your fear of “dictatorial” Trump.

We have two decades of data showing how national security measures in the 9-11 era evolve. In 2004 the George W. Bush administration defined “enemy combatant” as “an individual who was part of or supporting Taliban or al Qaeda forces, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States.” Yet in oral arguments of Rosul et al v Bush later that year, the government conceded an enemy combatant could be a “little old lady in Switzerland” who “wrote a check” to what she thought was an orphanage.

Eventually, every element of the requirement that an enemy combatant be connected to “hostilities against the United States” was dropped, including the United States part. Though Barack Obama eliminated the term “enemy combatant” in 2009, the government retained (and retains) a claim of authority to do basically whatever it wants, when it comes to capturing and detaining people deemed national security threats. You can expect a similar progression with speech controls.

Just ahead of Monday’s oral arguments in Murtha v. Missouri, formerly Missouri v. Biden — the case so many of us hoped would see the First Amendment reinvigorated by the Supreme Court — this TikTok bill has allowed the intelligence community to re-capture the legislative branch. Just a few principled speech defenders are left now. Fifty Democrats voted against the bill, which is heartening, although virtually none argued against it on First Amendment grounds, whis is infurating. Pramila Jayapal had a typical take, saying the ban would “harm users who rely on TikTok for their livelihoods, many of whom are people of color.”

Contrast that with Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, who went after members of his own party, singling out Republicans encouraging a governmental power grab after years of fighting big tech abuses not just at TikTok but other platforms. These people claim to be horrified, he said, but actions speak louder than words.

“Look at their legislative proposals,” he said, noting many want to “set up government agencies and panels” on speech, effectively saying “If you’re not putting enough conservatives on there, by golly we’re going to have a government commission that’s going to determine what kind of content gets on there.”

These, he said, are “scary ideas.”

He’s right, and shame on papers like the New York Post that are going after Paul for having donors connected to TikTok. Paul has been consistent in his defense of speech throughout his career, so the idea that his opinion on this matter is bought is ludicrous. It’s a relief to be able to expect at least some adherence to principle on this topic from him or fellow Kentuckian Thomas Massie, just as we once could expect it from Democrats like Paul Wellstone or Dennis Kucinich.

I don’t often do this, but as Walter pointed out in today’s podcast, this bill is so dangerous, the moment so suddenly and unexpectedly grave, that we both recommend anyone who can find the time to call or write their Senators to express opposition to any coming Senate vote. It might help. Yes, collection of personal information and content manipulation by the Chinese government (or Russia’s, or ours) are serious problems, but the wider view is the speech emergency. As the cliché goes, forget the furniture. The house is on fire. Let’s hope we’re not too late.

I say vote no unless definition of control is tightened up (to mean over 50% direct or indirect ownership and or managerial control of the IP) or B ii is deleted.
Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
9 months ago

Matt Taibbi, who I greatly respect, wrote:I say vote no unless definition of control is tightened up (to mean over 50% direct or indirect ownership and or managerial control of the IP) or B ii is deleted.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


"Did they tell you the part about giving the president sweeping new powers?"

This is what I was talking about with the "poison pill" in the Bill. Rarely is a Bill every just about what it's 'billed' as. They like to sneak in the fine print. Then when the "other" party declines, it's OMG THEY WANNA TAKE MONEY FROM THE CHILDREN!!! or some other outlandish idiotic nonsense to discredit.
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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
9 months ago

"Did they tell you the part about giving the president sweeping new powers?"

This is what I was talking about with the "poison pill" in the Bill. Rarely is a Bill every just about what it's 'billed' as. They like to sneak in the fine print. Then when the "other" party declines, it's OMG THEY WANNA TAKE MONEY FROM THE CHILDREN!!! or some other outlandish idiotic nonsense to discredit.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 




I know a former Congressman. Whenever he voted "No" on a key issue we knew there was a bunch of junk tucked in there too. Stuff that had nothing to do with the original bill.

People would freak and he would show them the other things that were added. He had the pages marked. 3 or 4 extra goodies that would never pass on their own accord.
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earthquake
9 months ago
It's a garbage bill and the president (any president) shouldn't have special powers over media companies. Bad news all around here.
blank
Martha Careful
9 months ago
Also…foreign entity…Elon Musk is South African
Go Packers!!!!
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Zero2Cool (3-Jan) : Packers placed Marshawn Lloyd on reserve non-football illness list
Zero2Cool (3-Jan) : Luke Getsy been helping Packers defense. He's former OC Bears/Raiders and our old QB coach
beast (2-Jan) : Thanks dfosterf, I'm still kicking myself for last week, as I forgot to change to pick Vikings and Lions... after putting in a holding spot.
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : First alternate: Elgton Jenkins Other alternates: Jordan Love, Kenny Clark, Keisean Nixon, Tucker Kraft, Josh Myers, Jaire Alexander
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : Pro Bowl still a thing? Guess Packers have three. Jacobs, Gary, McKinney.
dfosterf (2-Jan) : It's a mine field with all the players sitting, etc
dfosterf (2-Jan) : There was quite a bit of "chalk" matchups this year it seemed, but not this week coming up
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : Or we got better and by we I mean everyone except me
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : We have about six that by percent would have won nearly any season. I guess 2024 was predictable 🤷
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : You can check previous seasons. I quick did it and don't think anyone hit 70% before
dfosterf (2-Jan) : Hats off to the Beast
dfosterf (2-Jan) : I'm at 71.76% in pick 'em. 2nd place. Beast is at a flat 75% 9 games ahead. That 75% has got to be unprecedented this late in the season
beast (2-Jan) : I don't care deeply, just want some good entertaining games
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : BTW, not serious.
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : You don't care about it either!!!!
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : NIL and Portal killed college, no one cares about it.
Mucky Tundra (2-Jan) : outside of Texas-Arizona St, it's been a snoozefest
beast (2-Jan) : I expect Georgia will change that tomorrow, but we'll have to wait and see. If they do, then only Big 10 and SEC are left.
beast (2-Jan) : So much for Conference Championship meaning something as 100% (so far) of the conference Champions lost their first playoff game.
Zero2Cool (1-Jan) : Jaire had surgery, season over.
Mucky Tundra (1-Jan) : I guess I need a new sig Pic. Boo
Mucky Tundra (1-Jan) : Eric Dickerson approves of this decision
beast (1-Jan) : Eagles are resting RB Saquon Barkley, so there is no chance he breaks the record despite being just 101 yards from it
Zero2Cool (1-Jan) : Patriots are waiving veteran pass rusher Yannick Ngakoue
beast (1-Jan) : Happy New Year's 🥳🎉
beast (31-Dec) : I want to them chant some songs for Daniel Whelan
beast (31-Dec) : Let's win one! Also, hopefully the Irish will stand with Daniel Whelan
Mucky Tundra (31-Dec) : After London and Brazil, I could go without an overseas game for a while
Zero2Cool (31-Dec) : Packers. Steelers. Ireland. 2025. Reports say.
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Matt Lafleur on if Jaire will play again this season. "Yeah I don't know... he's been dealing with swelling."
Mucky Tundra (30-Dec) : After the way they played for most of the game yesterday, I don't see how you can sit anyone for the whole game
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : I'd say play everyone. Going into playoffs at 7th seed on two game lose streak - yucky
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Do the Packers have any best players?
beast (30-Dec) : Play or Rest*
beast (30-Dec) : Should the Packers play or free their best players vs the Bears?
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Packers should be 3 - 2 in the Division. Bonkers being swept by both Lions and Vikings. yikes
go.pack.go. (30-Dec) : All crazy stuff…and good point beast
beast (30-Dec) : Packers should be 0-5 in the division, can't say I saw that coming, even 1-4
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Sam Darnold 35 TD's ... another one
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Baker Mayfield, 39 TD's ... can't say I saw that one
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : No matter who is playing as 7th, I think we want them to win. Get rid of 2nd seed haha
go.pack.go. (30-Dec) : That would be dhazer who was rooting for Minnesota
beast (30-Dec) : Well, Commanders are currently the 6th seed and Packers the 7th
beast (30-Dec) : Who was it in Chat, that wanted the Vikings to win (because Lions fans upset them) because Packers could not lose the 6th seed?
beast (30-Dec) : If Falcons win, Packers stay as the 6th seed and Falcons lead the NFCS, if they lose, Commanders 6th and Bucs take NFCS lead
beast (30-Dec) : Win or Loss, the NFCS is going down to week 18
Mucky Tundra (30-Dec) : if the Falcons win, how does that affect the overall NFC playoff picture? Does it mean that the NFC South comes down to week 18?
beast (30-Dec) : If Commanders win, the Packers drop to the 7th seed
beast (29-Dec) : Taylor still at it!
beast (29-Dec) : Colts get the ball and fumble turn over
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