beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
a year ago


Being a sports fan today can feel like floating adrift in a vast sea of statistics. So let’s remember one of the most fundamental pillars of numerical analysis: Correlation is not causation. 

Put simply, this means that a relationship between two actions or conditions does not necessarily mean that one causes the other. If you get a sunburn eating an ice cream cone 95 out of 100 times, it does not follow that you got a sunburn because you ate ice cream. 

Here’s a more relevant example: In the past 10 Super Bowls, at least one team had an elite tight end in seven of them. And in four out of the last five. In three of the last four, *both* teams had top tight ends. We all saw what Travis Kelce and Dallas Goedert did last month.

Does this mean that having an elite tight end is the reason teams get to the dance? No, but correlation matters. And when it comes to modern offenses in football, having a difference-making tight end helps more than is often acknowledged. Even in a sport awash in number crunching, the position is undervalued, and the Packers should draft one in the first round this year no matter how many picks they end up with. Here’s why:

The position is a force mulitiplier  — Assigning low positional value to tight ends makes sense if you look at individual production in isolation. But top receiving tight ends open up opportunities for wideouts AND the run game. They stress the defense by enabling more schematic options, especially in the middle of the field. Tight ends that also block well are doubly dangerous, helping to spring running backs and assisting in pass protection. Other positions are force multipliers, too, but tight ends never seem to get the credit. 

Physically, top tight ends force mismatches that require defenses to have specialized DBs or linebackers. Essentially, the defense has to play in nickel, which is the new base for most teams. And those defenders have to have size and speed. Without them, it’s easy pickings for diversified offenses.

Elite tight ends are scarce — Unlike running backs and wideouts, top tier tight ends are a rare commodity. Finding a Kelce, Gronk or Kittle is like winning the lottery. Which is also true for quarterbacks, and look how valuable they are. I am not saying TEs are as important as QBs, just pointing out that when you have scarcity, the value should be higher than it otherwise would be, a market inefficiency that creates opportunity. Here’s a thought experiment: If you could have either Travis Kelce or Tyreek Hill today, which one would you choose? We know which one the Chiefs chose. The Super Bowl champion chiefs. 

Remember, too, that there are tight ends just a notch below the superstars who have significant impact, such as Darren Waller, Mark Andrews, Goedert, T.J. Hockenson  and Kyle Pitts. The Rams did fairly well with Tyler Higbee. 

The price is right — As mentioned, you pay a lot less for top tight ends than wideouts. For as long as that lasts, that’s a boon for roster building, allowing more spending for other key positions. It’s the MoneyBall strategy. One of the reasons running backs have lower value is their lack of longevity. We’ve seen little evidence of the same problem with tight ends. 

The Packers have been suffering the loss of Jermichael Finley ever since his career-ending injury. This year’s draft offers a unique chance to finally solve the problem. The class is deep, with a couple of potentially elite prospects that the Packers can get with their current draft position. And a few others are a notch below. But this is not a time to get cute, which the Packers sometimes do, and pass up a likely difference-maker on the assumption that they can get someone just slightly less worthy in a later round. And then they find themselves paying to move up for the guy that they like and need to snag before someone else does. But who isn’t as good as the top prospect.

Would I be making this argument if Green Bay had a top 5 pick? Or if a legitimate top 5 talent falls to them at 15?  No, but those are nearly impossible scenarios. Meanwhile, the wideout class is thin, and the Packers have two solid, developing starters. Adding a WR3 at the top of the draft should not be a higher priority than tight end. 

Based on their size/speed and skill sets, the two top TE candidates are Michael Mayer of Penn State and Dalton Kincaid of Utah. Mayer had a weak combine, so Kincaid might be the clear top prospect who fits Green Bay, but regardless, the Packers should grab one of them, because they won’t be around later. And if it were me, I’d either bring back Robert Tonyan (he was still not 100% this past season) or take one of the lesser but decent prospects later in the draft. (Sleeper: Zack Kuntz,  Old Dominion.) Two tight-end sets are highly effective, and you never know when you might strike gold in a later round. It would hardly be the first time the Packers take multiple swings at a position in the same draft. 

This is obviously an easier call if the Packers add a first-round pick via trade. Even if they don’t, tight end should be the pick in round 1. This market inefficiency won’t last forever. 

Continue Reading @ CheeseheadTV 

CheeseheadTV wrote:




Should the Packers draft a TE in the first round?
UserPostedImage
a year ago

Should the Packers draft a TE in the first round?

Yes…the guy from Notre Dame…he blocks and is a strong receiving threat
Go Packers!!!!
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
a year ago

Yes…the guy from Notre Dame…he blocks and is a strong receiving threat

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 

I've been thinking the TE Washington from Georgia is Gute's dream TE.

TE Lewis sized, but more a hell lot faster (and I'm talking about at their combines so when Lewis was young and had young legs, Lewis ran a 4.84 while Washington ran a 4.64... to try to compare, Lazard ran a 4.56. and Tonyan, then as a heavy WR rana 4.58 before later putting weight on to become a TE).

So Tonyan like speed in Lewis like frame.

Though Washington has absolutely amazing potential, he's not fully developed in any aspect, but Gute seems to love upside potential and puts it on coaches and players to get there.
​​​​​​
 
UserPostedImage
a year ago

I've been thinking the TE Washington from Georgia is Gute's dream TE.

TE Lewis sized, but more a hell lot faster (and I'm talking about at their combines so when Lewis was young and had young legs, Lewis ran a 4.84 while Washington ran a 4.64... to try to compare, Lazard ran a 4.56. and Tonyan, then as a heavy WR rana 4.58 before later putting weight on to become a TE).

So Tonyan like speed in Lewis like frame.

Though Washington has absolutely amazing potential, he's not fully developed in any aspect, but Gute seems to love upside potential and puts it on coaches and players to get there.​​​​ 

Originally Posted by: beast 

The problem is that sometimes straight-line speed does not translate to getting open.   I will bet there are lots of tight ends faster than Kittle and Kelsy, but they are not shifty i.e. the they don't change directions with ease and have to slowdown.

Having said that, we could alot worse.
Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
a year ago
Can't remember who it was, but they said (Jordan Schultz, that's who) said TE's are probably gonna be slim on the free agency because he's hearing the draft is deep at TE.
UserPostedImage
Mucky Tundra
a year ago
I'm not a fan of a TE in round 1 but I'm all for one in round 2 and beyond. I think Gute will double dip at the position with a more polished one early with a project on day 3. I'd imagine that they'll either bring back Tonyan on a reasonable deal or try to get a vet after the draft. 
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (8h) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
wpr (15-Nov) : wow. That three different things for the kid.
Zero2Cool (15-Nov) : MarShawn Lloyd has appendicitis according to Matt LaFleur.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

19-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.