beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
a year ago


Being a sports fan today can feel like floating adrift in a vast sea of statistics. So let’s remember one of the most fundamental pillars of numerical analysis: Correlation is not causation. 

Put simply, this means that a relationship between two actions or conditions does not necessarily mean that one causes the other. If you get a sunburn eating an ice cream cone 95 out of 100 times, it does not follow that you got a sunburn because you ate ice cream. 

Here’s a more relevant example: In the past 10 Super Bowls, at least one team had an elite tight end in seven of them. And in four out of the last five. In three of the last four, *both* teams had top tight ends. We all saw what Travis Kelce and Dallas Goedert did last month.

Does this mean that having an elite tight end is the reason teams get to the dance? No, but correlation matters. And when it comes to modern offenses in football, having a difference-making tight end helps more than is often acknowledged. Even in a sport awash in number crunching, the position is undervalued, and the Packers should draft one in the first round this year no matter how many picks they end up with. Here’s why:

The position is a force mulitiplier  — Assigning low positional value to tight ends makes sense if you look at individual production in isolation. But top receiving tight ends open up opportunities for wideouts AND the run game. They stress the defense by enabling more schematic options, especially in the middle of the field. Tight ends that also block well are doubly dangerous, helping to spring running backs and assisting in pass protection. Other positions are force multipliers, too, but tight ends never seem to get the credit. 

Physically, top tight ends force mismatches that require defenses to have specialized DBs or linebackers. Essentially, the defense has to play in nickel, which is the new base for most teams. And those defenders have to have size and speed. Without them, it’s easy pickings for diversified offenses.

Elite tight ends are scarce — Unlike running backs and wideouts, top tier tight ends are a rare commodity. Finding a Kelce, Gronk or Kittle is like winning the lottery. Which is also true for quarterbacks, and look how valuable they are. I am not saying TEs are as important as QBs, just pointing out that when you have scarcity, the value should be higher than it otherwise would be, a market inefficiency that creates opportunity. Here’s a thought experiment: If you could have either Travis Kelce or Tyreek Hill today, which one would you choose? We know which one the Chiefs chose. The Super Bowl champion chiefs. 

Remember, too, that there are tight ends just a notch below the superstars who have significant impact, such as Darren Waller, Mark Andrews, Goedert, T.J. Hockenson  and Kyle Pitts. The Rams did fairly well with Tyler Higbee. 

The price is right — As mentioned, you pay a lot less for top tight ends than wideouts. For as long as that lasts, that’s a boon for roster building, allowing more spending for other key positions. It’s the MoneyBall strategy. One of the reasons running backs have lower value is their lack of longevity. We’ve seen little evidence of the same problem with tight ends. 

The Packers have been suffering the loss of Jermichael Finley ever since his career-ending injury. This year’s draft offers a unique chance to finally solve the problem. The class is deep, with a couple of potentially elite prospects that the Packers can get with their current draft position. And a few others are a notch below. But this is not a time to get cute, which the Packers sometimes do, and pass up a likely difference-maker on the assumption that they can get someone just slightly less worthy in a later round. And then they find themselves paying to move up for the guy that they like and need to snag before someone else does. But who isn’t as good as the top prospect.

Would I be making this argument if Green Bay had a top 5 pick? Or if a legitimate top 5 talent falls to them at 15?  No, but those are nearly impossible scenarios. Meanwhile, the wideout class is thin, and the Packers have two solid, developing starters. Adding a WR3 at the top of the draft should not be a higher priority than tight end. 

Based on their size/speed and skill sets, the two top TE candidates are Michael Mayer of Penn State and Dalton Kincaid of Utah. Mayer had a weak combine, so Kincaid might be the clear top prospect who fits Green Bay, but regardless, the Packers should grab one of them, because they won’t be around later. And if it were me, I’d either bring back Robert Tonyan (he was still not 100% this past season) or take one of the lesser but decent prospects later in the draft. (Sleeper: Zack Kuntz,  Old Dominion.) Two tight-end sets are highly effective, and you never know when you might strike gold in a later round. It would hardly be the first time the Packers take multiple swings at a position in the same draft. 

This is obviously an easier call if the Packers add a first-round pick via trade. Even if they don’t, tight end should be the pick in round 1. This market inefficiency won’t last forever. 

Continue Reading @ CheeseheadTV 

CheeseheadTV wrote:




Should the Packers draft a TE in the first round?
UserPostedImage
a year ago

Should the Packers draft a TE in the first round?

Yes…the guy from Notre Dame…he blocks and is a strong receiving threat
Go Packers!!!!
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
a year ago

Yes…the guy from Notre Dame…he blocks and is a strong receiving threat

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 

I've been thinking the TE Washington from Georgia is Gute's dream TE.

TE Lewis sized, but more a hell lot faster (and I'm talking about at their combines so when Lewis was young and had young legs, Lewis ran a 4.84 while Washington ran a 4.64... to try to compare, Lazard ran a 4.56. and Tonyan, then as a heavy WR rana 4.58 before later putting weight on to become a TE).

So Tonyan like speed in Lewis like frame.

Though Washington has absolutely amazing potential, he's not fully developed in any aspect, but Gute seems to love upside potential and puts it on coaches and players to get there.
​​​​​​
 
UserPostedImage
a year ago

I've been thinking the TE Washington from Georgia is Gute's dream TE.

TE Lewis sized, but more a hell lot faster (and I'm talking about at their combines so when Lewis was young and had young legs, Lewis ran a 4.84 while Washington ran a 4.64... to try to compare, Lazard ran a 4.56. and Tonyan, then as a heavy WR rana 4.58 before later putting weight on to become a TE).

So Tonyan like speed in Lewis like frame.

Though Washington has absolutely amazing potential, he's not fully developed in any aspect, but Gute seems to love upside potential and puts it on coaches and players to get there.​​​​ 

Originally Posted by: beast 

The problem is that sometimes straight-line speed does not translate to getting open.   I will bet there are lots of tight ends faster than Kittle and Kelsy, but they are not shifty i.e. the they don't change directions with ease and have to slowdown.

Having said that, we could alot worse.
Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
a year ago
Can't remember who it was, but they said (Jordan Schultz, that's who) said TE's are probably gonna be slim on the free agency because he's hearing the draft is deep at TE.
UserPostedImage
Mucky Tundra
a year ago
I'm not a fan of a TE in round 1 but I'm all for one in round 2 and beyond. I think Gute will double dip at the position with a more polished one early with a project on day 3. I'd imagine that they'll either bring back Tonyan on a reasonable deal or try to get a vet after the draft. 
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
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Zero2Cool (18m) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (18m) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (1h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (1h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (1h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (1h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (1h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (1h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (1h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (1h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (1h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (1h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (1h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (1h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (1h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (1h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (1h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (1h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (1h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (1h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (2h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (2h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (2h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (2h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
packerfanoutwest (2h) : falcons are already ahead of us
beast (2h) : Packers will get in
beast (2h) : If Packers lose the rest of their games and Falcons win the rest of theirs, they could pass us... but not gonna happen
packerfanoutwest (2h) : they still are in the playoffs
packerfanoutwest (2h) : If Packers lose the remaining games,,,,at 10-7
Zero2Cool (4h) : We can say it. We don't play.
Mucky Tundra (5h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints
Mucky Tundra (5h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games
Mucky Tundra (5h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.
buckeyepackfan (6h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.
Mucky Tundra (15h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (15h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (15h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (18h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (18h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (18h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (19h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
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