earthquake
3 years ago
From my understanding the reason this hasn't been done is two-fold:
1. It's a big research task that nobody has undertaken, until now
2. It's likely impossible to accurately gather stats from the entirety of league history

As to #1, it's surprising that no one at the NFL could find time for this, especially if a couple guys on the internet can, but I think the internet and specifically ease of access to information makes this a much more approachable task than it would have been in the past. But yeah, this is the part that fits with Cheesey and Beast's points about updating historical records when new information is discovered. The events happened, they weren't officially added to the record books at the time, but the raw data has been sitting there in one form or another waiting for someone to do the work.

For #2, this is probably still true and the main reason why these stats currently are and will likely remain unofficial. That said, it will be interesting to see just how deep they can go with the research here. There is game film, game logs, local newspaper articles that are archived and available to the public, etc. I'm willing to bet the data could be dug up in, if not 100% complete and accurate, a relatively comprehensive way.

One thing that is important to mention here is that no record books have been officially updated, Clay Mathews is still, officially, the leading sacker for the Green Bay Packers. This won't change unless/until the NFL adopts this research or undertakes a similar project, and I'm not sure what the likelihood of that is, but I assume it is low.

To Kevin's point re: why don't they update more stats. I think it would be great if someone had the time and ambition to do this. Targets, drops, that sort of thing would be interesting to see. I'm not sure when those started being tallied (and I'm not sure either is currently an official NFL stat). Going further I would love to see some sort of stats for players like offensive lineman, block win rate, for both runs and passes? This is probably hard to tally without knowing the playcall/responsibilities, but some sites such as PFF have done good work in this field.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago

From my understanding the reason this hasn't been done is two-fold:
1. It's a big research task that nobody has undertaken, until now
2. It's likely impossible to accurately gather stats from the entirety of league history

As to #1, it's surprising that no one at the NFL could find time for this, especially if a couple guys on the internet can, but I think the internet and specifically ease of access to information makes this a much more approachable task than it would have been in the past. But yeah, this is the part that fits with Cheesey and Beast's points about updating historical records when new information is discovered. The events happened, they weren't officially added to the record books at the time, but the raw data has been sitting there in one form or another waiting for someone to do the work.

For #2, this is probably still true and the main reason why these stats currently are and will likely remain unofficial. That said, it will be interesting to see just how deep they can go with the research here. There is game film, game logs, local newspaper articles that are archived and available to the public, etc. I'm willing to bet the data could be dug up in, if not 100% complete and accurate, a relatively comprehensive way.

One thing that is important to mention here is that no record books have been officially updated, Clay Mathews is still, officially, the leading sacker for the Green Bay Packers. This won't change unless/until the NFL adopts this research or undertakes a similar project, and I'm not sure what the likelihood of that is, but I assume it is low.

To Kevin's point re: why don't they update more stats. I think it would be great if someone had the time and ambition to do this. Targets, drops, that sort of thing would be interesting to see. I'm not sure when those started being tallied (and I'm not sure either is currently an official NFL stat). Going further I would love to see some sort of stats for players like offensive lineman, block win rate, for both runs and passes? This is probably hard to tally without knowing the playcall/responsibilities, but some sites such as PFF have done good work in this field.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Well said, thanks. I know I'm walking a line here that might be blurred. I'm about to blur it more. I want the records to be accurate as possible, so if that means an ambitious two or three year analysis of all of the NFL data and film to update the records, then do it. BUT, the caveat is once they conclude the research, a record is a record and that's it. As a record holder, I would like to only be concerned about someone new breaking my record, not someone who played before I was born to "break" my record, ya know? lol I know I'm doing very poorly and explaining my point. Sorry to anyone I'm confusing.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Found this about Deacon Jones.

Meanwhile, on the new, unofficial all-time NFL leaderboard, Bruce Smith (200) and Reggie White (198) still reign supreme. The fresh faces in the top-10 list are Deacon Jones, who zoomed past Kevin Greene and into third place with 173.5 sacks from 1961 through 1974, Jack Youngblood, with 151.5 sacks from 1971 through 1984, and Alan Page, with 148.5 sacks from 1967 through 1981.


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Cheesey
3 years ago
I used the Titanic as an example to show that what was once accepted as “fact”, can change when new evidence is discovered. Just as new evidence was discovered about the amount of sacks.
Maybe they deserve a seperate records book.
After all, there were different rules then. Like the fact that offensive linemen couldn’t grab a defender like they can now. They couldn’t use their hands at all, thus making it a lot easier for a defender to get to the QB.
The use of TV must make it easier to tabulate sacks too. What about before 1960? There’s no way to accurately count sacks, or other stats.
Like I said, maybe they should have a book of stats related to pre 1982. The rules and amount of games played per season were different then.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Willie Davis would have surely felt similar emotions learning he's the unofficial sack leader of the Green Bay Packers.
Al 'Bubba' Baker on becoming unofficial single-season sack king: 'Tears just started running down my eyes' 
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Michael David Smith @MichaelDavSmith Despite the excellent research that @pfref has collected on pre-1982 sacks, I'm told that the NFL does not anticipate making those records official.


Sounds like the NFL doesn't care about accuracy.
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Mucky Tundra (1h) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (7h) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (8h) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (23h) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
Martha Careful (10-Feb) : I cant help but feel good about how well the Packers D played in Philly during the playoffs
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : this game is over
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