KRK
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3 years ago

Packers’ career sacks leaderboard changes after Pro Football Reference’s research
The title now unofficially belongs to Willie Davis, who takes over from Clay Matthews.

By Evan "Tex" Western@TexWestern Jul 12, 2021, 3:10pm CDT packers-career-sacks-leaderboard-changes-after-pro-football-references-research

1982 is the magic year for pass-rushing records in the NFL. That season, the league began counting sacks as an official statistic, helping give pass-rushers an easy metric with which people could judge how effective a player is and was at bringing down the quarterback.

The modern value of sacks may be debated, and Green Bay Packers outside linebackers coach Mike Smith would surely be happy to have a spirited discussion about the value of pressures vs. sacks at any time. But sacks remain the single easiest number by which to judge a pass-rusher’s production. As long as they played after 1982, at least.

But on Monday, Pro Football Reference published the results of painstaking research by a pair of football researchers into game film in an attempt to quantify sacks farther back into NFL history. These two individuals reviewed a multitude of official records to try to recreate and account for sacks dating back to the 1960 season. Click here for a thorough discussion on this research, which has shaken up many of the career and single-season sack leaderboards, both across the NFL as a whole and for teams with a storied history like the Packers.

In fact, the biggest result of this research as far as Green Bay is concerned is a change atop the unofficial career leaderboard. No longer can Clay Matthews reliably claim to be the Packers’ top sacker in franchise history, as that title now belongs to a Pro Football Hall of Famer who played several decades earlier.

Here is a look at a few of the names who now show up — or who significantly moved up — on the Packers’ leaderboard now that this data has been incorporated.

New #1: Willie Davis
Davis, a deserving Hall of Famer and member of the Hall’s All-1960s Team, takes over the Packers’ top spot in career sacks based on this research. Davis is credited with a total of 93.5 sacks from 1960 through 1969, reaching that number thanks to an impressive string of All-Pro seasons in the middle part of the decade.

Davis ripped off four straight double-digit sack seasons from 1964 to 1967, topping out at 14.5 in 1964. That also comes after a 13-sack season in 1962; he also earned first-team All-Pro honors for each of those five campaigns, four of which ended with the Packers winning the NFL Championship.

Ezra Johnson
Much of 1977 first-round draft pick Ezra Johnson’s career did have sacks counted after they became an official statistic in 1982, but his first five seasons in a Green Bay Packer did not get the credit that they deserved. In particular, Johnson’s 1978 season — which saw him earn his only trip to the Pro Bowl — goes down as the second-highest single-season sack total in franchise history with 17.5. That falls behind only Tim Harris’ 19.5 number from 1989.

Previously, Johnson was credited with only 41.5 sacks as a Packer and 55.5 overall for his career. Those numbers balloon up to 82 and 96 with his first five seasons counted, and his Packers totals put him in third place behind Davis and Clay Matthews (83.5).

Lionel Aldridge
The “other” defensive end on Vince Lombardi’s dominant mid-1960s teams was Aldridge, who played for the Packers from 1963 to 1971. Although Aldridge never made a Pro Bowl, he paired up with Davis to make for a fearsome tandem, as the two each posted double-digit sacks in 1965 and 1966 (10 and 12.5 for Aldridge in those two respective years).

His newly-recognized total of 62 sacks puts him in sixth place in Packers lore, following Kabeer Gbaja Biamila (74.5) and Reggie White (68.5) in 4th and 5th places.

Henry Jordan
Yes, the Lombardi Packers have a third defensive lineman on the franchise’s top ten list, with defensive tackle Henry Jordan getting in on the act. Like Davis, Jordan is a Hall of Famer, and PFREF credits him with 52 sacks during his Packers career from 1960 to 1969. He may even climb the rankings a bit more if there were any missed sacks from the 1960 season, as he was an All-Pro that year but currently shows no sacks.

Jordan’s five straight All-Pro nods speaks to the consistency of his play, as he earned those honors every year from 1960 to 1964. It’s nice to see at least one statistical measure that demonstrates how great he was on the interior of the line for over a decade.

How fitting that the lead is now in the hands of a complete player, a class act, and a success after is time in uniform.
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Rewriting history. Not good.
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earthquake
3 years ago

Rewriting history. Not good.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Personally, I see this more as accurately depicting history, as the date they started keeping track of "sacks" keeps many of the historically great players out of the record books/stats. It's not like a sack wasn't possible before 1982 or resulted from a change in the rules or something like that. Players had been racking up sacks since the beginning of the game - quite literally, making history - it's just that nobody was logging it at the time.

Now, I don't know how sound the method for counting stats pre-1982 is, and if they can accurately count sacks retroactively for every player that ever played (probably a tall order). But even still, it's an interesting reference point, and I think it's great that past players are getting recognition for their accomplishments. Heck, I just learned about 3 Packers players that I had never heard of, and likely would not have heard of had this research not been done.

In any case, history is not a static thing, historical records are frequently updated when new information is discovered, old records analyzed, etc.
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beast
3 years ago
Yeah, this isn't rewriting history... this is just adding history of before 1982.

A lot happened before 1982... I'm sure some of us were born before 1982! Them telling a story that happened before 1982 is actually history, assuming they get the facts correct.

Also, I believe I read somewhere that these are still being counted as unofficial stats, and that the official sacks only count of after 1982. But still it's nice to know...

Also, you hear about Vince Lombardi's offensive line all the time you don't usually hear about their defensive line but it sounds like they were quite dominant, especially in sacks in an era that had less passing.
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Cheesey
3 years ago

Rewriting history. Not good.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Giving guys that played earlier the credit they deserve isn’t rewriting history.
Until the Titanic was found in 2 parts on the bottom of the ocean, it was believed that it went down in one piece. A few of the survivors said it snapped in half before it went down. But they were told they were wrong....but now we know they were right. Is updating the truth when facts are found rewriting history?
To me it’s just giving guys their due. How is that wrong? Or hurting current players?
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Are they going to do the same for people like Deacon Jones?

Giving guys that played earlier the credit they deserve isn’t rewriting history.
Until the Titanic was found in 2 parts on the bottom of the ocean, it was believed that it went down in one piece. A few of the survivors said it snapped in half before it went down. But they were told they were wrong....but now we know they were right. Is updating the truth when facts are found rewriting history?
To me it’s just giving guys their due. How is that wrong? Or hurting current players?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



If holding a franchise record meant a lot to you only to have it taken away post-retirement by player(s) who played generations before you, initially, yeah, that would sting. In the end, I would be glad the franchise history books were more reflective of actual events.
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beast
3 years ago

In the end, I would be glad the franchise history books were more reflective of actual events.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Just trying to clarify what you mean by this statement.

Are you saying your happy the history books added the sacks before 1982? (Which seems to go against everything else you're saying)

Or are you suggesting that sacks before 1982 were not actually events that happened?

Or is something else meant by that comment?
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago

Just trying to clarify what you mean by this statement.

Are you saying your happy the history books added the sacks before 1982? (Which seems to go against everything else you're saying)

Or are you suggesting that sacks before 1982 were not actually events that happened?

Or is something else meant by that comment?

Originally Posted by: beast 



I think it's a bit hyperbolic to say "everything else you're saying" when I said maybe ~10 words in the previous post.

I'm absolutely down with history books being accurate. Unlike Alan's Titanic reference (was not applicable here at all lol), we could have done this at any point. Why was it done now? Why not ten, twenty years ago? Why sacks? What else are we considering on -- I'll say updating since rewriting put some of you in a tissy -- updating? When are we going to say the records are the records? Are the records in a constant state of flux? This isn't like the Titanic where people are wanting to know, but couldn't find the sunk ship. We have everything we need right now and we only lose more data/information each day. So, when does it end? When are records solidified? When is there no changing it? When can we look a record and confidently know -- that's it.

The defender tackling the QB is something that can easily be counted while watching tape. The trouble is not every game was filmed, nor has accurate written records. So, there will not be an absolute count like we can have post-1982. Are we okay with that? Am I? I don't see me losing sleep over it. It's a bummer that Clay and KGB got the feeling of being franchise leader and Willie Davis didn't. That part I don't care for. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for his family, but I just think there might need to be a statue of limitations on record updating.

I believe Deacon Jones would probably have a different spot in history if all of his sacks were accrued. It was him who coined the term "sack".
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beast
3 years ago
Why now? Because it wasn't done before!

Are the records in constant flux? Everything in life is in constant flux... but yes someone could break a record this coming season!

And more evidence or proof of something could come up... just like now they believe a certain type of dinosaur did survive after all, and we call that type of animals a bird. Are understanding and knowledge or lack there of is always changing


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Zero2Cool
3 years ago

Why now? Because it wasn't done before!

Are the records in constant flux? Everything in life is in constant flux... but yes someone could break a record this coming season!

And more evidence or proof of something could come up... just like now they believe a certain type of dinosaur did survive after all, and we call that type of animals a bird. Are understanding and knowledge or lack there of is always changing

Originally Posted by: beast 



You do realize how your comparison makes no sense whatsoever to this, right?

I just don't understand how people can be so cavalier about records changing -- have you never held the record something before? Do we not care or value such things anymore? Has the rampant clickbait headlines of needing to be entertained by "what's new" somehow diminished the value of history? It's not like something new was discovered. We have had the film since day one. Why now? Saying because it wasn't done before is an acknowledgement you have nothing to add. I question why now because, when does it stop? This isn't geology, this isn't about a ship at the bottom of the sea, this isn't Paleontology, this is simple statistics where we have accrued all of the information already and it's just sitting around. So, why does Clay Matthews III now get bumped from franchise leader in sacks? Who is next? Can any record holder feel accomplished with their place in the statistical history books? Hell, do we care? Maybe we're a people now that don't give two shits about the past and are perfectly fine with nothing being concrete?

I love history. I've watched more history documentaries and read more history books than history professors. I love DISCOVERING new history elements. This is not such a thing. This is not a new discovery. This is people (for some reason) choosing now to go back and tabulate sacks and update record books.

Again, I am very happy for Willie Davis, I wish he would have been alive for it. I just feel that with something simple like statistics that we have all of the information already, just get it done, get it as right as possible and don't try juxtaposing the numbers in the future. Let be what is done, let it be done. That's all.

But hey, all the damn records are going to be slaughtered in a year or two anyway with the NFL adding more games so the whole thing is moot. haha.
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Mucky Tundra (5h) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11h) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11h) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
Martha Careful (10-Feb) : I cant help but feel good about how well the Packers D played in Philly during the playoffs
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : this game is over
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