earthquake
3 years ago
From my understanding the reason this hasn't been done is two-fold:
1. It's a big research task that nobody has undertaken, until now
2. It's likely impossible to accurately gather stats from the entirety of league history

As to #1, it's surprising that no one at the NFL could find time for this, especially if a couple guys on the internet can, but I think the internet and specifically ease of access to information makes this a much more approachable task than it would have been in the past. But yeah, this is the part that fits with Cheesey and Beast's points about updating historical records when new information is discovered. The events happened, they weren't officially added to the record books at the time, but the raw data has been sitting there in one form or another waiting for someone to do the work.

For #2, this is probably still true and the main reason why these stats currently are and will likely remain unofficial. That said, it will be interesting to see just how deep they can go with the research here. There is game film, game logs, local newspaper articles that are archived and available to the public, etc. I'm willing to bet the data could be dug up in, if not 100% complete and accurate, a relatively comprehensive way.

One thing that is important to mention here is that no record books have been officially updated, Clay Mathews is still, officially, the leading sacker for the Green Bay Packers. This won't change unless/until the NFL adopts this research or undertakes a similar project, and I'm not sure what the likelihood of that is, but I assume it is low.

To Kevin's point re: why don't they update more stats. I think it would be great if someone had the time and ambition to do this. Targets, drops, that sort of thing would be interesting to see. I'm not sure when those started being tallied (and I'm not sure either is currently an official NFL stat). Going further I would love to see some sort of stats for players like offensive lineman, block win rate, for both runs and passes? This is probably hard to tally without knowing the playcall/responsibilities, but some sites such as PFF have done good work in this field.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago

From my understanding the reason this hasn't been done is two-fold:
1. It's a big research task that nobody has undertaken, until now
2. It's likely impossible to accurately gather stats from the entirety of league history

As to #1, it's surprising that no one at the NFL could find time for this, especially if a couple guys on the internet can, but I think the internet and specifically ease of access to information makes this a much more approachable task than it would have been in the past. But yeah, this is the part that fits with Cheesey and Beast's points about updating historical records when new information is discovered. The events happened, they weren't officially added to the record books at the time, but the raw data has been sitting there in one form or another waiting for someone to do the work.

For #2, this is probably still true and the main reason why these stats currently are and will likely remain unofficial. That said, it will be interesting to see just how deep they can go with the research here. There is game film, game logs, local newspaper articles that are archived and available to the public, etc. I'm willing to bet the data could be dug up in, if not 100% complete and accurate, a relatively comprehensive way.

One thing that is important to mention here is that no record books have been officially updated, Clay Mathews is still, officially, the leading sacker for the Green Bay Packers. This won't change unless/until the NFL adopts this research or undertakes a similar project, and I'm not sure what the likelihood of that is, but I assume it is low.

To Kevin's point re: why don't they update more stats. I think it would be great if someone had the time and ambition to do this. Targets, drops, that sort of thing would be interesting to see. I'm not sure when those started being tallied (and I'm not sure either is currently an official NFL stat). Going further I would love to see some sort of stats for players like offensive lineman, block win rate, for both runs and passes? This is probably hard to tally without knowing the playcall/responsibilities, but some sites such as PFF have done good work in this field.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Well said, thanks. I know I'm walking a line here that might be blurred. I'm about to blur it more. I want the records to be accurate as possible, so if that means an ambitious two or three year analysis of all of the NFL data and film to update the records, then do it. BUT, the caveat is once they conclude the research, a record is a record and that's it. As a record holder, I would like to only be concerned about someone new breaking my record, not someone who played before I was born to "break" my record, ya know? lol I know I'm doing very poorly and explaining my point. Sorry to anyone I'm confusing.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Found this about Deacon Jones.

Meanwhile, on the new, unofficial all-time NFL leaderboard, Bruce Smith (200) and Reggie White (198) still reign supreme. The fresh faces in the top-10 list are Deacon Jones, who zoomed past Kevin Greene and into third place with 173.5 sacks from 1961 through 1974, Jack Youngblood, with 151.5 sacks from 1971 through 1984, and Alan Page, with 148.5 sacks from 1967 through 1981.


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Cheesey
3 years ago
I used the Titanic as an example to show that what was once accepted as “fact”, can change when new evidence is discovered. Just as new evidence was discovered about the amount of sacks.
Maybe they deserve a seperate records book.
After all, there were different rules then. Like the fact that offensive linemen couldn’t grab a defender like they can now. They couldn’t use their hands at all, thus making it a lot easier for a defender to get to the QB.
The use of TV must make it easier to tabulate sacks too. What about before 1960? There’s no way to accurately count sacks, or other stats.
Like I said, maybe they should have a book of stats related to pre 1982. The rules and amount of games played per season were different then.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Willie Davis would have surely felt similar emotions learning he's the unofficial sack leader of the Green Bay Packers.
Al 'Bubba' Baker on becoming unofficial single-season sack king: 'Tears just started running down my eyes' 
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Michael David Smith @MichaelDavSmith Despite the excellent research that @pfref has collected on pre-1982 sacks, I'm told that the NFL does not anticipate making those records official.


Sounds like the NFL doesn't care about accuracy.
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Zero2Cool (16h) : ... It clearly was not what we were supposed to be in, certainly."
Zero2Cool (16h) : Hafley says 3rd and 11 call there was a miscommunication.
Zero2Cool (17h) : The only team I know is Texas from that. Who are the other three?
Mucky Tundra (17h) : Notre Lame vs Pedo St tonight and the Luckeyes vs Texas tomorrow
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Zero2Cool (20h) : E. Cooper. Rookie of Month. Defense.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : @AaronNagler · 2m Both Jordan Love and Malik Willis were Limited participants at Packers practice today.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson didn't make it until 2020. Ring 2023. 🤷 Personally, he should have been in years prior to Hall.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : HUMP DAY
beast (8-Jan) : Guys that have a good shot at making the NFL Hall of Fame usually get into their teams pretty fast
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, but is Kampman and the others in the NFL Hall of Fame?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson was Hall of Fame, 2020. Should haev been in Ring a year later, not three years.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I could be wrong there though
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Guys like Kampman, Tim Harris, Al Harris, etc all over 15 years. Hall of Fame is 5 year wait
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I guess I see players in Packers Hall come way later
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, usually teams hall of fames are a much lower bar than the NFL
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : is it uncommon for Hall before Ring?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : S Xavier McKinney named first-team All-Pro by NFLPA
beast (8-Jan) : I missed it, sorry, but he got into the NFL Hall of Fame years before that
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Jones took his sweet ole time!
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Yeah, he's in the ring of honor, just saw video and his name is up there
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Didn't they have a thing in 2023 for Jimmy's ring of honor? I swear I saw it
beast (8-Jan) : Though if they're legitimately trying to re-sign MM, then it makes sense.
beast (8-Jan) : Jerry Jones still hasn't put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor, but he's in the NFL's Hall of Fame, Jones is petty
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : Unless the Cowboys are planning an extension, seems kinda petty
beast (8-Jan) : Cowboys denied Bears request
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : From what I'm reading, MM is under contract through the 14th of January; after that he's free game
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : McCarthy let go or not extended??
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Chicago Bears have asked the Dallas Cowboys permission to interview Mike McCarthy for head coaching vacancy
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beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
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Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats beast on 2024 !
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Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Missed FG into a Lions TD; that'll do pig, that'll do
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : That might be it for the Vikings
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Oh so the refs do know what intentional grounding is
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : what the hell was that Goff?! Not much pressure and he just air mails it to Harrison
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : They really need to to get rid of the auto first down for illegal contact
Martha Careful (6-Jan) : watching the Vikings and Lions it's understandable why they swept the Packers. So much better product
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Even when GB got pressure he was throwing darts; vs no pressure on that last pass he just air mails an open guy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : didn't have guys in his face ... pressure makes difference
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