earthquake
3 years ago
From my understanding the reason this hasn't been done is two-fold:
1. It's a big research task that nobody has undertaken, until now
2. It's likely impossible to accurately gather stats from the entirety of league history

As to #1, it's surprising that no one at the NFL could find time for this, especially if a couple guys on the internet can, but I think the internet and specifically ease of access to information makes this a much more approachable task than it would have been in the past. But yeah, this is the part that fits with Cheesey and Beast's points about updating historical records when new information is discovered. The events happened, they weren't officially added to the record books at the time, but the raw data has been sitting there in one form or another waiting for someone to do the work.

For #2, this is probably still true and the main reason why these stats currently are and will likely remain unofficial. That said, it will be interesting to see just how deep they can go with the research here. There is game film, game logs, local newspaper articles that are archived and available to the public, etc. I'm willing to bet the data could be dug up in, if not 100% complete and accurate, a relatively comprehensive way.

One thing that is important to mention here is that no record books have been officially updated, Clay Mathews is still, officially, the leading sacker for the Green Bay Packers. This won't change unless/until the NFL adopts this research or undertakes a similar project, and I'm not sure what the likelihood of that is, but I assume it is low.

To Kevin's point re: why don't they update more stats. I think it would be great if someone had the time and ambition to do this. Targets, drops, that sort of thing would be interesting to see. I'm not sure when those started being tallied (and I'm not sure either is currently an official NFL stat). Going further I would love to see some sort of stats for players like offensive lineman, block win rate, for both runs and passes? This is probably hard to tally without knowing the playcall/responsibilities, but some sites such as PFF have done good work in this field.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago

From my understanding the reason this hasn't been done is two-fold:
1. It's a big research task that nobody has undertaken, until now
2. It's likely impossible to accurately gather stats from the entirety of league history

As to #1, it's surprising that no one at the NFL could find time for this, especially if a couple guys on the internet can, but I think the internet and specifically ease of access to information makes this a much more approachable task than it would have been in the past. But yeah, this is the part that fits with Cheesey and Beast's points about updating historical records when new information is discovered. The events happened, they weren't officially added to the record books at the time, but the raw data has been sitting there in one form or another waiting for someone to do the work.

For #2, this is probably still true and the main reason why these stats currently are and will likely remain unofficial. That said, it will be interesting to see just how deep they can go with the research here. There is game film, game logs, local newspaper articles that are archived and available to the public, etc. I'm willing to bet the data could be dug up in, if not 100% complete and accurate, a relatively comprehensive way.

One thing that is important to mention here is that no record books have been officially updated, Clay Mathews is still, officially, the leading sacker for the Green Bay Packers. This won't change unless/until the NFL adopts this research or undertakes a similar project, and I'm not sure what the likelihood of that is, but I assume it is low.

To Kevin's point re: why don't they update more stats. I think it would be great if someone had the time and ambition to do this. Targets, drops, that sort of thing would be interesting to see. I'm not sure when those started being tallied (and I'm not sure either is currently an official NFL stat). Going further I would love to see some sort of stats for players like offensive lineman, block win rate, for both runs and passes? This is probably hard to tally without knowing the playcall/responsibilities, but some sites such as PFF have done good work in this field.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Well said, thanks. I know I'm walking a line here that might be blurred. I'm about to blur it more. I want the records to be accurate as possible, so if that means an ambitious two or three year analysis of all of the NFL data and film to update the records, then do it. BUT, the caveat is once they conclude the research, a record is a record and that's it. As a record holder, I would like to only be concerned about someone new breaking my record, not someone who played before I was born to "break" my record, ya know? lol I know I'm doing very poorly and explaining my point. Sorry to anyone I'm confusing.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Found this about Deacon Jones.

Meanwhile, on the new, unofficial all-time NFL leaderboard, Bruce Smith (200) and Reggie White (198) still reign supreme. The fresh faces in the top-10 list are Deacon Jones, who zoomed past Kevin Greene and into third place with 173.5 sacks from 1961 through 1974, Jack Youngblood, with 151.5 sacks from 1971 through 1984, and Alan Page, with 148.5 sacks from 1967 through 1981.


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Cheesey
3 years ago
I used the Titanic as an example to show that what was once accepted as “fact”, can change when new evidence is discovered. Just as new evidence was discovered about the amount of sacks.
Maybe they deserve a seperate records book.
After all, there were different rules then. Like the fact that offensive linemen couldn’t grab a defender like they can now. They couldn’t use their hands at all, thus making it a lot easier for a defender to get to the QB.
The use of TV must make it easier to tabulate sacks too. What about before 1960? There’s no way to accurately count sacks, or other stats.
Like I said, maybe they should have a book of stats related to pre 1982. The rules and amount of games played per season were different then.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Willie Davis would have surely felt similar emotions learning he's the unofficial sack leader of the Green Bay Packers.
Al 'Bubba' Baker on becoming unofficial single-season sack king: 'Tears just started running down my eyes' 
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
Michael David Smith @MichaelDavSmith Despite the excellent research that @pfref has collected on pre-1982 sacks, I'm told that the NFL does not anticipate making those records official.


Sounds like the NFL doesn't care about accuracy.
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Fan Shout
beast (10h) : 6 days
wpr (17-Apr) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
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