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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago

None of them ever were. Elway was "on" less than he was off, same as Brett, same as every QB, ever.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



Funny you should say that. I just read the following interesting article at Cold Hard Football Facts :

John Elway (1983-98)
Its almost sacrilege to criticize the great Denver quarterback. But, naturally, the Cold, Hard Football Facts are not above skewering pigskin dogma, and then munching on the roasted carcass, as if it were an Oktoberfest steckerlfische.

Elway was a great quarterback, as we noted last week in our look at all-time passer rating leaders. He won a lot of games, he lifted an ordinary organization to its greatest heights, he boasts two rings and he produced several amazing comebacks.

But he earns his way on the overrated list because he was never let us be very clear about this, Elway was NEVER a great passer. And passing being one of the primary responsibilities of a quarterback, it makes Elway an obvious name to include on this list.

The truth is that Elway was downright mediocre his first 10 years in the league and it was not until 1993 his 11th year in the NFL that he had anything that approximated a breakout season.

If not for the fact that Elway was a No. 1 draft pick and, thus, entered the league with a boatload of hype that earned him the benefit of the doubt, he never would have lasted very long as a starter in the NFL given the mediocrity of his performances in those first 10 years.

It wasn't until Elway was in his 11th NFL campaign of 1993 that he ever surpassed 22 TD passes in a season (about eight games of work for Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in a good year).

And even after that, Elway never passed for more than 27 TD passes in his 16-year career. Think about that for a moment ... after all, according to ProFootballReference.com, quarterbacks have passed for 28 TDs or more in a season 99 times in history. Yet the name "John Elway" is nowhere among that Top 99.

Yes, he threw for 300 TD passes in his career, fifth all time. But he averaged 18.75 TD passes per year, while tossing 226 picks (14.13 per year). That 19-14 average TD:INT ratio is far below the general 2 to 1 ratio that sets apart great Live Ball Era passers from ordinary passers.

And save for that breakout 1993 campaign, when Elway lead the league in completions (348) and yards (4,030), he never again we repeat, Elway NEVER led the league in any major passing categories (completions, yards, TDs, passer rating).

As we said before, Elway deserves to be considered a great quarterback and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. But go back and look at the Cold, Hard Football Facts and youll find a guy whose production never matched his reputation.

What you will find is a guy who stands at No. 44 on the all-time passer rating list (79.86), just one spot ahead of his clearly not-HOF-caliber mate from the famous QB Class of 1983, Tony Eason (79.72). Youll also find someone who produced three of the most dismal performances in Super Bowl history.

There are those sad, sorry souls devoid as they are of the Cold, Hard Football Facts who believe Elway is one of the Top Five quarterbacks in history. Athlon Sports, in its new 2008 pro football annual, named Elway the second best quarterback of the Super Bowl Era, behind only Joe Montana.

But hes not even close, folks. No way. No how. Sorry Athlon. Sorry Denver. Put aside the reputation, look only at the Cold, Hard Football Facts, and check yourself before your wreck yourself.



God, I love that website.
UserPostedImage
TheEngineer
16 years ago
Sometimes I think, isn't it a bit unfair to expect Rodgers to perform as good as Favre would do?

I mean, Rodgers is starting his first season. Favre's playing his 18th. To expect Rodgers to play to a level near Favre, is incredible.

Consider the fact that Rodgers meets the expectations of a few fans. Rodgers must achieve:

1.) 4th quarter comeback.

2.) Large margin of victory win.

3.) Leadership to the extent that he can rally a team's morale and will a victory.

4.) A record as good, if not better, than Favre's final 14-4 season.

5.) Statistical brilliance.

6.) The mental experience to never hold the ball too long, always zip it with accuracy and make plays out of nowhere.

7.) Battle through any and all injuries. Or perhaps, can't even get injured in the first place.


Isn't the thought of getting a QB who can do all that in their first season rather selfish? How many QBs can achieve all of that in their first starting season? People are basically asking for a HOF QB, or nothing at all. If Rodgers could do all that, he'd probably have one of the top 10 all time debut seasons as a QB.

And imagine what kind of player he would be in his 5th season starting when he could pull all that off in his first. People are asking for perfection in a world where there is none.

Rodgers is arguably not the best choice for Packers QB this season. But if he were, I'd be genuinely worried for every other team in the NFL, for a long time to come.

Be proud of your QB and what he's achieved so far. /Optimism.
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Pack93z
16 years ago


People (at times myself included) have Favre selective memory. Meaning we only remember when he was "on". The truth is that in these situations most of the time he wasn't "on".

"DGB454" wrote:



Yes sir indeedy.. but part of that is how it started.. Taylor against the Bengals.. and part of it was coming off so many dry years.

Favre wasn't perfect.. but you [strike]never[/strike] rarely turned the channel when you sat down to watch one of the games he played in. Unless it was one of his interception fests..

The guy brought the wow and the "oh shit" factor to the game.. this season there has been fewwer wow's from Rodgers.. but a hell of a lot less "Oh Shit's".

Yes Rodgers hasn't be prefect and he does deserve some grief for not carrying the team at times.. that grief should only drive him more this offseason, that is if he is the player I believe him to be.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
obi1
16 years ago

Dont want this lost since that thread was locked


listen to it 

Favre in 92 career games, where his teams were trailing 8 points or fewer with 5 minutes or less.

23- 69 record

Started off 6-22

LAST time Packers had a losing season in 05

HE WENT 0-11 IN THOSE CASES

"longtimefan" wrote:



What's Rodgers' record?
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dingus
16 years ago
What's your point?
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obi1
16 years ago

What's your point?

"dingus" wrote:



How many 4th quarter comebacks did Rodgers lead the team to victory? What is HIS record in these game?

Favre was as good as they came. THAT is why he is a bound for the HOF.

Let's not dis the man that helped give packer fans the best years that we have enjoyed since the 60s.

Lets just move on.
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brnt247
16 years ago
Favre was obviously not as good as they have came. Rodgers also has a much smaller sample size. There also isn't anything there that points to Favre scoring points in the last 5 minutes and the defense losing them back.
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longtimefan
16 years ago

What's your point?

"obi1" wrote:



How many 4th quarter comebacks did Rodgers lead the team to victory? What is HIS record in these game?

Favre was as good as they came. THAT is why he is a bound for the HOF.

Let's not dis the man that helped give packer fans the best years that we have enjoyed since the 60s.

Lets just move on.

"dingus" wrote:



Who is dissing him?

Its a fact..

Just as AR is 0-6 is a fact..

In his 1st 28 games with those conditions he went 6-22

Rodgers is 0-6 so far
Pack93z
16 years ago
Want the only stat that matter to me in this little debate you guys have going.

9-7 to ?-9.

If you look at the season records of each QB.. Brett only had one losing one.. Rodgers has his quota full already.

QB's get more glory or blame than they deserve.. but if you insist on comparing them endlessly.. wins are what matter in the end.. did you find a way to win more than you lose.

It is arguable that this team, the 08 team had more talent than the early 90's teams.

I expect Rodgers and the Packers to bounce back win wise next season.. the kid has a poise about him and some fire burning within him.. I think this losing season might be something that drives him going forward.. kind of a hidden blessing to ensure a long and prosperous career.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
DarkaneRules
16 years ago
We can only hope.
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