Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

None of them ever were. Elway was "on" less than he was off, same as Brett, same as every QB, ever.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



Funny you should say that. I just read the following interesting article at Cold Hard Football Facts :

John Elway (1983-98)
Its almost sacrilege to criticize the great Denver quarterback. But, naturally, the Cold, Hard Football Facts are not above skewering pigskin dogma, and then munching on the roasted carcass, as if it were an Oktoberfest steckerlfische.

Elway was a great quarterback, as we noted last week in our look at all-time passer rating leaders. He won a lot of games, he lifted an ordinary organization to its greatest heights, he boasts two rings and he produced several amazing comebacks.

But he earns his way on the overrated list because he was never let us be very clear about this, Elway was NEVER a great passer. And passing being one of the primary responsibilities of a quarterback, it makes Elway an obvious name to include on this list.

The truth is that Elway was downright mediocre his first 10 years in the league and it was not until 1993 his 11th year in the NFL that he had anything that approximated a breakout season.

If not for the fact that Elway was a No. 1 draft pick and, thus, entered the league with a boatload of hype that earned him the benefit of the doubt, he never would have lasted very long as a starter in the NFL given the mediocrity of his performances in those first 10 years.

It wasn't until Elway was in his 11th NFL campaign of 1993 that he ever surpassed 22 TD passes in a season (about eight games of work for Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in a good year).

And even after that, Elway never passed for more than 27 TD passes in his 16-year career. Think about that for a moment ... after all, according to ProFootballReference.com, quarterbacks have passed for 28 TDs or more in a season 99 times in history. Yet the name "John Elway" is nowhere among that Top 99.

Yes, he threw for 300 TD passes in his career, fifth all time. But he averaged 18.75 TD passes per year, while tossing 226 picks (14.13 per year). That 19-14 average TD:INT ratio is far below the general 2 to 1 ratio that sets apart great Live Ball Era passers from ordinary passers.

And save for that breakout 1993 campaign, when Elway lead the league in completions (348) and yards (4,030), he never again we repeat, Elway NEVER led the league in any major passing categories (completions, yards, TDs, passer rating).

As we said before, Elway deserves to be considered a great quarterback and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. But go back and look at the Cold, Hard Football Facts and youll find a guy whose production never matched his reputation.

What you will find is a guy who stands at No. 44 on the all-time passer rating list (79.86), just one spot ahead of his clearly not-HOF-caliber mate from the famous QB Class of 1983, Tony Eason (79.72). Youll also find someone who produced three of the most dismal performances in Super Bowl history.

There are those sad, sorry souls devoid as they are of the Cold, Hard Football Facts who believe Elway is one of the Top Five quarterbacks in history. Athlon Sports, in its new 2008 pro football annual, named Elway the second best quarterback of the Super Bowl Era, behind only Joe Montana.

But hes not even close, folks. No way. No how. Sorry Athlon. Sorry Denver. Put aside the reputation, look only at the Cold, Hard Football Facts, and check yourself before your wreck yourself.



God, I love that website.
UserPostedImage
TheEngineer
15 years ago
Sometimes I think, isn't it a bit unfair to expect Rodgers to perform as good as Favre would do?

I mean, Rodgers is starting his first season. Favre's playing his 18th. To expect Rodgers to play to a level near Favre, is incredible.

Consider the fact that Rodgers meets the expectations of a few fans. Rodgers must achieve:

1.) 4th quarter comeback.

2.) Large margin of victory win.

3.) Leadership to the extent that he can rally a team's morale and will a victory.

4.) A record as good, if not better, than Favre's final 14-4 season.

5.) Statistical brilliance.

6.) The mental experience to never hold the ball too long, always zip it with accuracy and make plays out of nowhere.

7.) Battle through any and all injuries. Or perhaps, can't even get injured in the first place.


Isn't the thought of getting a QB who can do all that in their first season rather selfish? How many QBs can achieve all of that in their first starting season? People are basically asking for a HOF QB, or nothing at all. If Rodgers could do all that, he'd probably have one of the top 10 all time debut seasons as a QB.

And imagine what kind of player he would be in his 5th season starting when he could pull all that off in his first. People are asking for perfection in a world where there is none.

Rodgers is arguably not the best choice for Packers QB this season. But if he were, I'd be genuinely worried for every other team in the NFL, for a long time to come.

Be proud of your QB and what he's achieved so far. /Optimism.
blank
Pack93z
15 years ago


People (at times myself included) have Favre selective memory. Meaning we only remember when he was "on". The truth is that in these situations most of the time he wasn't "on".

"DGB454" wrote:



Yes sir indeedy.. but part of that is how it started.. Taylor against the Bengals.. and part of it was coming off so many dry years.

Favre wasn't perfect.. but you [strike]never[/strike] rarely turned the channel when you sat down to watch one of the games he played in. Unless it was one of his interception fests..

The guy brought the wow and the "oh shit" factor to the game.. this season there has been fewwer wow's from Rodgers.. but a hell of a lot less "Oh Shit's".

Yes Rodgers hasn't be prefect and he does deserve some grief for not carrying the team at times.. that grief should only drive him more this offseason, that is if he is the player I believe him to be.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
obi1
15 years ago

Dont want this lost since that thread was locked


listen to it 

Favre in 92 career games, where his teams were trailing 8 points or fewer with 5 minutes or less.

23- 69 record

Started off 6-22

LAST time Packers had a losing season in 05

HE WENT 0-11 IN THOSE CASES

"longtimefan" wrote:



What's Rodgers' record?
blank
dingus
15 years ago
What's your point?
blank
obi1
15 years ago

What's your point?

"dingus" wrote:



How many 4th quarter comebacks did Rodgers lead the team to victory? What is HIS record in these game?

Favre was as good as they came. THAT is why he is a bound for the HOF.

Let's not dis the man that helped give packer fans the best years that we have enjoyed since the 60s.

Lets just move on.
blank
brnt247
15 years ago
Favre was obviously not as good as they have came. Rodgers also has a much smaller sample size. There also isn't anything there that points to Favre scoring points in the last 5 minutes and the defense losing them back.
blank
longtimefan
15 years ago

What's your point?

"obi1" wrote:



How many 4th quarter comebacks did Rodgers lead the team to victory? What is HIS record in these game?

Favre was as good as they came. THAT is why he is a bound for the HOF.

Let's not dis the man that helped give packer fans the best years that we have enjoyed since the 60s.

Lets just move on.

"dingus" wrote:



Who is dissing him?

Its a fact..

Just as Aaron Rodgers is 0-6 is a fact..

In his 1st 28 games with those conditions he went 6-22

Rodgers is 0-6 so far
Pack93z
15 years ago
Want the only stat that matter to me in this little debate you guys have going.

9-7 to ?-9.

If you look at the season records of each QB.. Brett only had one losing one.. Rodgers has his quota full already.

QB's get more glory or blame than they deserve.. but if you insist on comparing them endlessly.. wins are what matter in the end.. did you find a way to win more than you lose.

It is arguable that this team, the 08 team had more talent than the early 90's teams.

I expect Rodgers and the Packers to bounce back win wise next season.. the kid has a poise about him and some fire burning within him.. I think this losing season might be something that drives him going forward.. kind of a hidden blessing to ensure a long and prosperous career.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
DarkaneRules
15 years ago
We can only hope.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (59m) : Tomorrow high 32° and low 19°
beast (7h) : Thanks Mucky!
Mucky Tundra (10h) : beast, forecast is looking like 27-28 degrees at kickoff, slight chance of snow flurries
Zero2Cool (13h) : Oh? It wasn't on the injury report. That sucks, but it's what is best.
packerfanoutwest (14h) : Doubs is out due to concussion
beast (16h) : What does the weather look like?
Martha Careful (20h) : You can wear long-johns mittens and a hat. We want Hill and their other skill guys FROZEN
Zero2Cool (26-Nov) : I'm not sure I hope for that. I'll be at the game.
Martha Careful (25-Nov) : I hope it is colder than a well-diggers ass on Thanksgiving night.
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
beast (25-Nov) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
Mucky Tundra (25-Nov) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Bears. Vikings. OT
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Thems the breaks I guess
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
7h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

13h / Featured Content / Martha Careful

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / GameDay Threads / Zero2Cool

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.