KRK
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4 years ago

Okay Z, I found the article again.
Totalpackers.com/2019/12/draft-peers-rashan-gary/
If you google Rashan Gary, a lot of articles cover his injury issues so questioning whether or not he’s injured isn’t out of line.

Originally Posted by: yooperfan 

Excellent article and food for thought.

In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Okay Z, I found the article again.
http://Totalpackers.com/2019/12/draft-peers-rashan-gary/ 
If you google Rashan Gary, a lot of articles cover his injury issues so questioning whether or not he’s injured isn’t out of line.

Originally Posted by: yooperfan 



Thanks for posting the link. It's basically as I suspected though, hit piece with no depth or understanding of the big picture. The snap statistics I find interesting because of the positions and incoming expectations of the pick. Those picked in front of Rashan Gary were obviously not an option for the Packers, so comparing him to them is baseless and unwarranted. Also, Rashan Gary was not projected to start as a rookie. He's actually been progressing as we were told before even taking a snap as an NFL player.

Why do people bash a player based on where they were drafted? It feels obnoxious to me. The player didn't have a choice. Sometimes, the team tries to trade back, but no one wants to trade up with them. Do you trade from 12th overall to 20th overall while getting nothing but a 6th round pick to make the move? Hell no.

The whole mantra of calling players a bust has annoyed me because of how ignorant the entire argument is. Why is it so difficult for fans to just root for players to succeed rather than condemn them for production that doesn't mean their own personal naïve expectations?

When analyzing a draft, or draft pick. You have to know what the Packers are scouting for. You have to know what pieces they thought they'd be able to trade for. You have to factor in contracts for players that might be expiring. There is a plethora of variables that go into it and it's why it's such a difficult task.

Look at that 2019 first round draft. It's not like it was littered with a lot of All-Pro players.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

Edit: I need to clarify something. I feel calling players a bust is ignorant for me to do because I don't know all the variables.
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beast
4 years ago
1st round players should be starters from day ONE!

Which is exactly why the Dolphins, Brown's Bears, Buccaneers, Titans, Vikings, Cardinals, Redskins, Lions, Cowboys,
Chargers, Giants, Saints, Panthers, Chiefs, Texans, Bengals, Vikings (AGAIN), Rams, Cowboys (AGAIN), Jaguars, Ravens and Raiders... were all extremely smart to pass on Aaron Rodgers! If that idiot Ted Thompson knew, he'd be GM still.

Everyone KNOWS, it's not how you finish, but how you start!

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wpr
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4 years ago
I agree Zero. (I'm not going to quote your post.) I have given up on trying to convince fans to look at the bigger picture which means to wait a full three years minimum. As Beast points out, sometimes it's longer.
I never go to the totalpackers site anymore. I know as much perhaps more than he does but I don't spew like he does.
Fans can support the team as they see fit but there is no reason to compare the 12th pick in the draft to the ones that were taken ahead of him. Perhaps comparing the 12th to the 10th-15th would make more sense. And snap count means nothing. Kentrell Brice was on the field a lot between 2016-2018. He wasn't much to brag about.
Who knows why Gute signed two high price FA and then drafted Gary. The only thing I knew was it meant Gary wasn't going to be on the field very much. It kinda made sense because they planned to move Gary into a new position.
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earthquake
4 years ago
Kingsley Keke looks solid for a 5th round pick too, another 2-sack game, I have to wonder when he's given a chance to start. Not to mention perhaps the best interior offensive lineman in the league (Elgton Jenkins). Even if Jace Sternberger never gets it together, the 2019 draft is looking fairly good at the moment.
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beast
4 years ago

Who knows why Gute signed two high price FA and then drafted Gary. The only thing I knew was it meant Gary wasn't going to be on the field very much. It kinda made sense because they planned to move Gary into a new position.

Originally Posted by: wpr 

I've said for years that you don't need two good edge rushers, but three as they get tired and you need to rotate them and they can get injured (especially said this with Matthews and Parry)... and while I wasn't sure if Gary would develop, Gute FREAKING LOVES upside potential... and while I don't think (or don't know) if Gary will ever develop to this point, as he seems to be a slow developer... he's upside potential is potentially top physical pass rusher in the NFL.

Upside potential also answers why QB Love (he's not ready and needs to develop, but tons of upside potential) and RB Dillon (his raw workout numbers compare extremely well to RB Derek Henry.

Kingsley Keke looks solid for a 5th round pick too, another 2-sack game, I have to wonder when he's given a chance to start. Not to mention perhaps the best interior offensive lineman in the league (Elgton Jenkins). Even if Jace Sternberger never gets it together, the 2019 draft is looking fairly good at the moment.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 


Yes, it's looking like a very good draft right now... though I wondered at the time if we made a mistake with TE Sternberger over WR Terry McLaurin.... and it seems we absolutely did... McLaurin has looked like a stud for Washington even when they haven't had a QB.... BUT this system needs multiple good TEs which we didn't seem to have at the time.

Without looking it up, I THINK Keke is gaining in the snap counts I believe catching up on Lowry in overall snaps for the season after being way behind. He's athletic and pass rush are top notch... I'm guessing only his run defense and wanting to rotate guys is keeping him from getting even more snaps.
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Mucky Tundra
4 years ago
Back in the summer of 2013 I was certain if GB would be better off if they shipped Mike Daniels off to a team that still ran a 4-3 defense looking for interior pass rush. I mean, he had a nice rookie year for a 4th round dlineman but thought he was too small to last long in the NFL full time. Yeah. So now I just sit and watch (and occasionally complain) before the end of their 3rd year.

I've said for years that you don't need two good edge rushers, but three as they get tired and you need to rotate them and they can get injured (especially said this with Matthews and Parry)... and while I wasn't sure if Gary would develop, Gute FREAKING LOVES upside potential... and while I don't think (or don't know) if Gary will ever develop to this point, as he seems to be a slow developer... he's upside potential is potentially top physical pass rusher in the NFL.

Upside potential also answers why QB Love (he's not ready and needs to develop, but tons of upside potential) and RB Dillon (his raw workout numbers compare extremely well to RB Derek Henry.


Yes, it's looking like a very good draft right now... though I wondered at the time if we made a mistake with TE Sternberger over WR Terry McLaurin.... and it seems we absolutely did... McLaurin has looked like a stud for Washington even when they haven't had a QB.... BUT this system needs multiple good TEs which we didn't seem to have at the time.

Without looking it up, I THINK Keke is gaining in the snap counts I believe catching up on Lowry in overall snaps for the season after being way behind. He's athletic and pass rush are top notch... I'm guessing only his run defense and wanting to rotate guys is keeping him from getting even more snaps.

Originally Posted by: beast 



If Gary had polished pass rush moves, he's going #2 over Bosa.

You could apply the upside/potential argument with Sternberger as he was only a one year starter at Texas A&M after bouncing between colleges. It's a shame that it looks like concussions will do him in. Definitely digging Keke's upward trend as a pass rusher. Keke also only played one year inside at DT after playing DE (noticing a trend here lol).
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
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nerdmann
4 years ago

Back in the summer of 2013 I was certain if GB would be better off if they shipped Mike Daniels off to a team that still ran a 4-3 defense looking for interior pass rush. I mean, he had a nice rookie year for a 4th round dlineman but thought he was too small to last long in the NFL full time. Yeah. So now I just sit and watch (and occasionally complain) before the end of their 3rd year.



If Gary had polished pass rush moves, he's going #2 over Bosa.

You could apply the upside/potential argument with Sternberger as he was only a one year starter at Texas A&M after bouncing between colleges. It's a shame that it looks like concussions will do him in. Definitely digging Keke's upward trend as a pass rusher. Keke also only played one year inside at DT after playing DE (noticing a trend here lol).

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 



I think Sternberger will be fine, just seems like he's taking a lot of shots to the helmet.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

I agree Zero. (I'm not going to quote your post.) I have given up on trying to convince fans to look at the bigger picture which means to wait a full three years minimum. As Beast points out, sometimes it's longer.
I never go to the totalpackers site anymore. I know as much perhaps more than he does but I don't spew like he does.
Fans can support the team as they see fit but there is no reason to compare the 12th pick in the draft to the ones that were taken ahead of him. Perhaps comparing the 12th to the 10th-15th would make more sense. And snap count means nothing. Kentrell Brice was on the field a lot between 2016-2018. He wasn't much to brag about.
Who knows why Gute signed two high price FA and then drafted Gary. The only thing I knew was it meant Gary wasn't going to be on the field very much. It kinda made sense because they planned to move Gary into a new position.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I find the snap count to be interesting, but I just don't know it's an accurate barometer of validating (or invalidating) a draft pick.

I wish I could somehow convince fans that the draft is for the future. When we see rookies having an impact, it's usually an impact on a really bad team or a rare good pick. And often times we see rookies flash something really good and then fade away. We want rookies to progress from year one to year two, from 2 to 3, etc. The expectations fans put on rookies is absolutely absurd, in my opinion. I also despise grading the draft before these kids even suit up.

It's really simple in the football world. Draft is for the future. Free Agents are for the present.

As for Rashan Gary, folks are starting to see this kid doing good things. I've been noticing him in the backfield quite a bit.



I wouldn't go this strong with my comments, but the point is kind of true. If you're still not seeing that Gary is coming around, you're just doubling down.
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Zero2Cool
3 years ago
What's this about? I've been told Gary is a bust. A underperformer. This basically invalidates everything with ProFootballFocus, yes? 😜🤔😳😎🤓




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