beast
4 years ago

However, many of us remain concerned that the OL and DL and ILB which were absolutely destroyed twice by the 49ers and other opponents have not been adequately addressed.

We shall see....just a thought for the OL, is Jason Peters an option.

Originally Posted by: KRK 

Actually the DL kicked ass, a strong majority of the games and IMO the only reason coverage (which struggled and you didn't mention) was able to hang in there.

Last season might be the least amount of time I've heard the OL bitched about since the early 2000s OL.

And ILB, yeah your right, they sucked... though Martinez did have a point in that he wasn't used to his strength this last season, but you can't use all 11to their strengths unless they have the same ones.

But, yes, I agree, OT is a large concern. Though so is CB for me.

I am simply not ready to cede that rookies can’t contribute. That’s a very popular opinion for those people who want to cover for poor decisions. “Give him time, give him time.” then three years later “Everybody knew the guy was a project” or “ that’s old news, quit kicking a dead horse.”

Originally Posted by: KRK 

On a similar note, very popular opinion is that Gute was a great GM while going 13-3....but I'm not ready to cede that, as his draft picks really haven't develop at all yet.

Yeah there are some good ones, but they almost came at the level that they're playing at and haven't yet improved that much.

Though Gute is positioning them to give them room to grow, which if they do develop, that's extremely smart, but if they don't, leaves us in a potential hole at the position.

Also, with this last draft, it appears that Gute is setting himself to free up cap space in the future, so he has more for FAs, which he has used fairly well on defense, not as much on offense.

You keep saying a rookie won’t make an impact immediately. However, many rookies make huge impacts from the beginning. Writing off a rookie for their first year doesn’t make much sense.

And if even if your theory was correct, what’s the point in waiting to address your needs? If you get an impact from a rookie immediately in a position of need, great. If not, year 2 will be next year and that player will be a step ahead of next year’s rookie. Why waste time just saying “there’s always next year, so we don’t need to address that right now since he won’t make an impact this year.” Or “maybe other teams will just get worse, let’s hope for that.” Well that’s not happening, teams like the 49ers, Eagles, Vikings, and Bears all got better this offseason. I’m not so sure that we did.

Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 


Not many of Gute's rookies have huge impact from the beginning, except maybe those selected in the very top. Part of that is because he seems to be selecting guys based on their top ceiling potential.

Which you can get in round one, but further down, they only dropped because they need development... so he's going high risk, looking for that high reward.


The big problem with going after need is that most selection are swings and misses, so you need to look for best value, not necessarily best need.


Also, I still argue the Packers do draft for need... media and fans just don't see it because they define the word "need" differently. Fans mean, what have need right this second. Where the Packers look more toward a season in the future.

1) QB = not a need
2) RB = Need with Jones, Williams and Ervin all going into contract year
3) H-Back = Need because this system needed another, and lost Graham and Vitale
5) ILB = lost Martinez
6) OL OL OL = Linsley, Taylor, and Bak are all going into contract years. Madison injury might hold him out this year, Turner didn't play up to his contract.amd if they want to,.they can get out of it.after this year fairly easily.
7) OLB and S, = Packers lost OLB Fackrell and S Campbell


So all potential needs looking at next year model except the QB, which as Gute said months before the draft, if he sees a franchise QB drop to him, the Wolf model that these scouts have been trained in say grab them even if you already have one.
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Zero2Cool
4 years ago
I thought that Billy Turner guy played well? And by that I mean I didn't hear anyone complaining about him. To me, that usually means the OL did their job. I don't readily watch the OL so I wouldn't have much insight.

I do agree with the context of the majority of your post, however, this part below ...

Also, I still argue the Packers do draft for need... media and fans just don't see it because they define the word "need" differently. Fans mean, what have need right this second. Where the Packers look more toward a season in the future.

Originally Posted by: beast 



... feels very much like a semantics argument.




Separately, I am curious if our coaching staff goes into a Sophomore slump (e.g. teams have tape on the coaches tendencies) or if the team grows from year one to year two.
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beast
4 years ago

I thought that Billy Turner guy played well? And by that I mean I didn't hear anyone complaining about him. To me, that usually means the OL did their job. I don't readily watch the OL so I wouldn't have much insight.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

He struggled a lot earlier on, was the weakest guy on the OL for a while, but turned on strong down the stretch.

But I've also thought that Packers might be getting rid of two of their three veteran interior OL (Taylor, Linsley and Turner), and that was before they drafted three interior OL.



I do agree with the context of the majority of your post, however, this part below ... ... feels very much like a semantics argument.

Separately, I am curious if our coaching staff goes into a Sophomore slump (e.g. teams have tape on the coaches tendencies) or if the team grows from year one to year two.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Might feel like semantics, but fans claimed the Packers didn't draft for need for years, but in reality, they often used their second selection on a position with an important player going into contract years. So fans looking at the current, team is looking at the future.


I'm curious about that too, and I think the Packers will have a slump but not due to those factors (so not because of Sophomore slump (e.g. teams have tape on the coaches tendencies) but because the Packers lucked out time after time last year, from staying healthy, to playing injured teams, to facing some of the starting QBs that struggle with pressure the most.... to now facing one of the best group of opposising veteran QBs that I can remember.

IMO, I think this will be a fact, defense will struggle a lot more this year, not because they've changed.but the QBs they're expected to face are much better than the ones.laat year with pressure in their face.


But also to note, the Packers defensive will be in their third year with Pettine and LaFleur didn't have all the pieces to truely run his full offense last year (according to Rodgers).

So I think the offense will look more complete, especially in small ball which fans won't care for as much, but it'll be more effective. But the defense results will take a step back.



UserPostedImage
Smokey
4 years ago

Sorta kinda.

I agree with many of your comments. However, many of us remain concerned that the OL and DL and ILB which were absolutely destroyed twice by the 49ers and other opponents have not been adequately addressed.

We shall see....just a thought for the OL, is Jason Peters an option. He is 38 old but I think still PDG and would provide very solid depth at OT.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



The Packers took an ILB, a G, a C, a OT, a S, and a DE in the 2020 draft. They may not be pro-bowlers in their rookie years, but then was David Bakhtiari right away. Last years O and D lines will have the advantage (for the most part) of playing together as O or D units. That experience of playing as they have builds cohesiveness and lessens unwanted mistakes.

Some say a team is rebuilding and sometimes it's true. In the Packers case they are not rebuilding, but evolving. I'm not seeing wholesale player position replacement, but the normal activity that most teams undergo during their offseasons. The Packers GM and HC both know what needs to be addressed and it looks like they are getting the job under way. As usual TC will weed out the best from the rest.
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Nonstopdrivel
4 years ago

Translation: There's the wide receiver finally. ;)

I'm curious how many other teams offer coaching fellowships.

Incidentally, LaFleur apparently has a history with Martin:

UserPostedImage
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packerfanoutwest (14h) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22h) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
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