beast
5 years ago

However, many of us remain concerned that the OL and DL and ILB which were absolutely destroyed twice by the 49ers and other opponents have not been adequately addressed.

We shall see....just a thought for the OL, is Jason Peters an option.

Originally Posted by: KRK 

Actually the DL kicked ass, a strong majority of the games and IMO the only reason coverage (which struggled and you didn't mention) was able to hang in there.

Last season might be the least amount of time I've heard the OL bitched about since the early 2000s OL.

And ILB, yeah your right, they sucked... though Martinez did have a point in that he wasn't used to his strength this last season, but you can't use all 11to their strengths unless they have the same ones.

But, yes, I agree, OT is a large concern. Though so is CB for me.

I am simply not ready to cede that rookies can’t contribute. That’s a very popular opinion for those people who want to cover for poor decisions. “Give him time, give him time.” then three years later “Everybody knew the guy was a project” or “ that’s old news, quit kicking a dead horse.”

Originally Posted by: KRK 

On a similar note, very popular opinion is that Gute was a great GM while going 13-3....but I'm not ready to cede that, as his draft picks really haven't develop at all yet.

Yeah there are some good ones, but they almost came at the level that they're playing at and haven't yet improved that much.

Though Gute is positioning them to give them room to grow, which if they do develop, that's extremely smart, but if they don't, leaves us in a potential hole at the position.

Also, with this last draft, it appears that Gute is setting himself to free up cap space in the future, so he has more for FAs, which he has used fairly well on defense, not as much on offense.

You keep saying a rookie won’t make an impact immediately. However, many rookies make huge impacts from the beginning. Writing off a rookie for their first year doesn’t make much sense.

And if even if your theory was correct, what’s the point in waiting to address your needs? If you get an impact from a rookie immediately in a position of need, great. If not, year 2 will be next year and that player will be a step ahead of next year’s rookie. Why waste time just saying “there’s always next year, so we don’t need to address that right now since he won’t make an impact this year.” Or “maybe other teams will just get worse, let’s hope for that.” Well that’s not happening, teams like the 49ers, Eagles, Vikings, and Bears all got better this offseason. I’m not so sure that we did.

Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 


Not many of Gute's rookies have huge impact from the beginning, except maybe those selected in the very top. Part of that is because he seems to be selecting guys based on their top ceiling potential.

Which you can get in round one, but further down, they only dropped because they need development... so he's going high risk, looking for that high reward.


The big problem with going after need is that most selection are swings and misses, so you need to look for best value, not necessarily best need.


Also, I still argue the Packers do draft for need... media and fans just don't see it because they define the word "need" differently. Fans mean, what have need right this second. Where the Packers look more toward a season in the future.

1) QB = not a need
2) RB = Need with Jones, Williams and Ervin all going into contract year
3) H-Back = Need because this system needed another, and lost Graham and Vitale
5) ILB = lost Martinez
6) OL OL OL = Linsley, Taylor, and Bak are all going into contract years. Madison injury might hold him out this year, Turner didn't play up to his contract.amd if they want to,.they can get out of it.after this year fairly easily.
7) OLB and S, = Packers lost OLB Fackrell and S Campbell


So all potential needs looking at next year model except the QB, which as Gute said months before the draft, if he sees a franchise QB drop to him, the Wolf model that these scouts have been trained in say grab them even if you already have one.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
5 years ago
I thought that Billy Turner guy played well? And by that I mean I didn't hear anyone complaining about him. To me, that usually means the OL did their job. I don't readily watch the OL so I wouldn't have much insight.

I do agree with the context of the majority of your post, however, this part below ...

Also, I still argue the Packers do draft for need... media and fans just don't see it because they define the word "need" differently. Fans mean, what have need right this second. Where the Packers look more toward a season in the future.

Originally Posted by: beast 



... feels very much like a semantics argument.




Separately, I am curious if our coaching staff goes into a Sophomore slump (e.g. teams have tape on the coaches tendencies) or if the team grows from year one to year two.
UserPostedImage
beast
5 years ago

I thought that Billy Turner guy played well? And by that I mean I didn't hear anyone complaining about him. To me, that usually means the OL did their job. I don't readily watch the OL so I wouldn't have much insight.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

He struggled a lot earlier on, was the weakest guy on the OL for a while, but turned on strong down the stretch.

But I've also thought that Packers might be getting rid of two of their three veteran interior OL (Taylor, Linsley and Turner), and that was before they drafted three interior OL.



I do agree with the context of the majority of your post, however, this part below ... ... feels very much like a semantics argument.

Separately, I am curious if our coaching staff goes into a Sophomore slump (e.g. teams have tape on the coaches tendencies) or if the team grows from year one to year two.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Might feel like semantics, but fans claimed the Packers didn't draft for need for years, but in reality, they often used their second selection on a position with an important player going into contract years. So fans looking at the current, team is looking at the future.


I'm curious about that too, and I think the Packers will have a slump but not due to those factors (so not because of Sophomore slump (e.g. teams have tape on the coaches tendencies) but because the Packers lucked out time after time last year, from staying healthy, to playing injured teams, to facing some of the starting QBs that struggle with pressure the most.... to now facing one of the best group of opposising veteran QBs that I can remember.

IMO, I think this will be a fact, defense will struggle a lot more this year, not because they've changed.but the QBs they're expected to face are much better than the ones.laat year with pressure in their face.


But also to note, the Packers defensive will be in their third year with Pettine and LaFleur didn't have all the pieces to truely run his full offense last year (according to Rodgers).

So I think the offense will look more complete, especially in small ball which fans won't care for as much, but it'll be more effective. But the defense results will take a step back.



UserPostedImage
Smokey
5 years ago

Sorta kinda.

I agree with many of your comments. However, many of us remain concerned that the OL and DL and ILB which were absolutely destroyed twice by the 49ers and other opponents have not been adequately addressed.

We shall see....just a thought for the OL, is Jason Peters an option. He is 38 old but I think still PDG and would provide very solid depth at OT.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



The Packers took an ILB, a G, a C, a OT, a S, and a DE in the 2020 draft. They may not be pro-bowlers in their rookie years, but then was David Bakhtiari right away. Last years O and D lines will have the advantage (for the most part) of playing together as O or D units. That experience of playing as they have builds cohesiveness and lessens unwanted mistakes.

Some say a team is rebuilding and sometimes it's true. In the Packers case they are not rebuilding, but evolving. I'm not seeing wholesale player position replacement, but the normal activity that most teams undergo during their offseasons. The Packers GM and HC both know what needs to be addressed and it looks like they are getting the job under way. As usual TC will weed out the best from the rest.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
5 years ago

Translation: There's the wide receiver finally. ;)

I'm curious how many other teams offer coaching fellowships.

Incidentally, LaFleur apparently has a history with Martin:

UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
dfosterf (14-Jul) : *analysis* gettin' old
dfosterf (14-Jul) : One of the best analyisis I"ve ever watched at this time of an offseason
dfosterf (14-Jul) : Andy Herman interviewed Warren Sharp on his Pack a day podcast
packerfanoutwest (10-Jul) : Us Padres fans love it....But it'll be a Dodgers/Yankees World Series
Zero2Cool (9-Jul) : Brewers sweep Dodgers. Awesome
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : And James Flanigan is the grandson of Packers Super Bowl winner Jim Flanigan Sr.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : Jerome Bettis and Jim Flanigans sons as well!
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Thomas Davis Jr is OLB, not WR. Oops.
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Larry Fitzgeral and Thomas Davis sons too. WR's as well.
Mucky Tundra (5-Jul) : Kaydon Finley, son of Jermichael Finley, commits to Notre Dame
dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!
Zero2Cool (3-Jul) : My cousin, yes.
dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?
Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade
dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Beats the hell out of a Vikings signing
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : Baltimore Ravens now have signed former Packers CB Jaire Alexander.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

14-Jul / Community Welcome! / lijog

10-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-Jul / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

6-Jul / Random Babble / Martha Careful

4-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

2-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

2-Jul / Fantasy Sports Talk / dfosterf

1-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Jun / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

23-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.