Zero2Cool
6 years ago
Vic has his own website now that he's retired. He makes some decent points about Dom Capers. I still want a DC change though.


Bill from Menominee, WI
"When performance is not the equal of the talent available to the coach, it's time to find a new coach." I always defended Dom Capers, saying he would be hired immediately elsewhere if he were let go because he was too good to go unemployed at the NFL level. But after looking at players like Walden, Hyde, Hayward and Williams being released to become difference-makers elsewhere after being average or slightly above in Green Bay, it's getting harder to defend Capers with such a disconnect between drafted talent and scheme. It just seems like the same deficiencies are exposed year after year.

Forgive me, Bill, but you have lit a fuse in me. Casey Hayward was the Packers' rookie of the year in 2012 with six interceptions and 21 passes defensed. A crippling hamstring injury limited him to only three games played in '13 and then dogged him through his final two seasons with the Packers. That's Coach Capers' fault? Micah Hyde was an ultra-productive player for the Packers. He intercepted eight passes and defensed 22 passes as a part-time starter in his final three years in Green Bay. The Packers allowed him to leave in free agency because they had drafted HaHa and Randall in the first round and Rollins in the second round in consecutive drafts and couldn't find a place to play Hyde that would justify the money they'd have to pay him. That's Coach Capers' fault? Tramon Williams came to the Packers after being cut by the Texans and he became a fixture at cornerback in Green Bay. I don't recall him becoming a difference-maker in Cleveland or Arizona, but who would forget what he did for the Packers in the 2010 season? He was allowed to leave in free agency because the Packers needed to get younger in the secondary. That's Coach Capers' fault? Erik Walden came to the Packers after being cut by the Cowboys, Chiefs and Dolphins. An off-the-field event did much to seal Walden's fate in Green Bay. That's Coach Capers' fault? How about Datone Jones, Jerrell Worthy, Josh Boyd, Khyri Thornton and Christian Ringo? Have any of them become difference-makers somewhere else? I think you all might get your cup of blood this year, because I don't know how Mike McCarthy can withstand another year of the howl, but this problem is not Coach Capers' fault

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gbguy20
6 years ago
6 consecutive years of horrendous defense. He needs to be held accountable. I'm sure there are plenty of good points to both sides. But it's 6 consecutive years of horrendous defense. That is all that matters at this point.
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TheKanataThrilla
6 years ago
I am not sure how a draft works from the inside, but to me it would make a whole lot of sense for Dom to have some say in the Defensive players picked.The fact we have invested so much in the early rounds on the D and have seen absolutely no improvement leads me to believe it is either a problem with Dom's system or that there is a total communication disconnect between the scouts, GM and Dom as to who fits best in our system.
yooperfan
6 years ago

I am not sure how a draft works from the inside, but to me it would make a whole lot of sense for Dom to have some say in the Defensive players picked.The fact we have invested so much in the early rounds on the D and have seen absolutely no improvement leads me to believe it is either a problem with Dom's system or that there is a total communication disconnect between the scouts, GM and Dom as to who fits best in our system.

Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 


True, and Thompson needs to be held accountable as well.

beast
6 years ago

I am not sure how a draft works from the inside, but to me it would make a whole lot of sense for Dom to have some say in the Defensive players picked.The fact we have invested so much in the early rounds on the D and have seen absolutely no improvement leads me to believe it is either a problem with Dom's system or that there is a total communication disconnect between the scouts, GM and Dom as to who fits best in our system.

Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 

First off, I'm sure that you are right that coaches are given some input. At least any players with large questions, like the short ILB they drafted (DJ Smith?), Capers seems to give think that wouldn't be a problem and compared him to someone else like he knew questions would be raised.

But something I learned early on about coaches and scouting is that they don't mix well... at least not from what I've seen. Word/rumor is that coaches normally get hung up on the flashy stuff and miss the other parts.

But Vince Lombardi is considered one of the greatest coaches ever (if not the greatest), but he was a horrible GM... so where did all of his talent come from? The guy before him, who was a great GM, but horrible coach.

Look at Mike Sherman (or almost any coach as GM) ... Bill Belichick does alright as GM but it's said that it's because he delegates most of the work to his #2 guy.

But look at Mike McCarthy... they gave him input to the 2005 draft and he said is was one of number of guys that voted to go with Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers.

Also a number of draft people have asked for a while if the Packers were drafting for a 3-4 defense or not, because a lot of their selections have seemed more like 4-3 selects as with the 3-4, they normally want more length in their front and Packers rarely drafted length high. I'm not sure who that came from, the coaches or the scouts, but the DL coach touted how he believes in leverage (lower pad level) more than length.

But simply, I do feel like there has been some sort of disconnected between the on the field scheme and players drafted for it. Also feel like it's changed in the last two drafts, like they might of reset the scheme and what they are looking for... as both the on the field scheme has changed and they seem to be drafting a different kind of player.

As Fackrell, Martinez, Lowery, King, Jones are all different types than who the Packers have grabbed in the past. Most of them because of their length, but Martinez because I think he might be the lightest ILB they've taken at least that high in the draft and they've been avoiding SS but now draft Jones (who doubles as a coverage ILB on the side).
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Cheesey
6 years ago
As long as every season is an attempt to get " younger", you will never have a decent defense.
Younger is a nice idea, but then you don't have a continuity with your D, or the veteran leadership.
Is it getting younger, or a GM that is too cheap to pay to keep your better vets?
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Zero2Cool (17m) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (1h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (1h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (2h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (2h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (2h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (2h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (2h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (2h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (2h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (2h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (2h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (2h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (2h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (2h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (2h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (2h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (2h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (2h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (3h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (3h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (3h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (3h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
packerfanoutwest (3h) : falcons are already ahead of us
beast (3h) : Packers will get in
beast (3h) : If Packers lose the rest of their games and Falcons win the rest of theirs, they could pass us... but not gonna happen
packerfanoutwest (3h) : they still are in the playoffs
packerfanoutwest (3h) : If Packers lose the remaining games,,,,at 10-7
Zero2Cool (5h) : We can say it. We don't play.
Mucky Tundra (6h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints
Mucky Tundra (6h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games
Mucky Tundra (6h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.
buckeyepackfan (7h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.
Mucky Tundra (16h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (16h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (16h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (20h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
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