Ron Wolf: Legend. Ted Thompson: Failure.· Page 25

Barfarn
Senior Member

9 years ago

That isn't the point and never was...the point is Ted Thompson had CJ Wilson ahead of Sam Shields and very well could've seen him get drafted in the last 25 left in the 7th and that is not even mentioning the risk of him being a FREE AGENT who could sign with whomever he wanted. He's a Miami kid and he's just going to pick Green Bay? He went for opportunity and the money not necessarily in that order.

The way it's told here Ted Thompson is a genius...he just knew Sam would fall to him at the UDFA pool and then he would automatically sign with us. Ain't even close to reality.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

Ted Thompson did not have CJ Wilson rated ahead of Shields. If you learn how GMs, especially TT, do their job it would help you on your Blues-Brothers-type Mission from God to rid the universe of Packer Fans that nonsensically gush over TT. BTW, I know and met many and read several Packer Boards for a # of years and I have yet to see any Packer Fan nonsensically gushing over TT. You should question either the mission or the God that sent you on it.

You envision Ted Thompson drafting like you would, knowing what you know. You find a draftnik top 100 and if at pick #62, Ted Thompson takes #63, you’ll scream REACH! All your instincts of how a draft should be conducted are just wrong and this is why you have such difficulty accurately evaluating them. You dont understand tiers, you dont understand how scouts develop relationships, you dont understand how GMs/scouts gather intel on what other teams are thinking and because you dont understand it, you deny its reality. Please pay attention and learn a nugget or two:

In reality, at this point in the draft Ted Thompson will have between 10-50 players in a tier. CJ and Shields were in the same tier, no one rated higher than the other. Ted Thompson then sorted through several variables to determine who’s picked: special teams play; depth of team’s position group; is there an outstanding trait; max upside; who, if not picked can likely or less likely be signed as an UDFA; etc. The Packers had been gushing over Sammy for a year since he was converted to CB at Miami’s spring game. Shields was a 4.3 WR that could not get on the field because he could not grasp the playbook; a very poor candidate to learn a new position so late. He had a daughter at 17 and another 3 years later; suspended twice for academics and was arrested for pot a week before his pro day. Eliot was the only one on the Sammy trail until he ran that 4.3 at his pro day, then the pretender GMs took notice. Ted Thompson saw his HUGE upside; he was a good gunner and ran a 4.3 at a position of need; and Ted Thompson was assured Sammy was not a character risk despite a resume to the contrary. There is NO WAY Ted Thompson passes on Shields if he is not assured he’s signing as an UDFA, just like Wolf w/ Driver, only difference is Driver gave no assurance like Sammy did, so Ron had to draft him.

Again Ted Thompson did know Shields wouldn't be drafted; just like he knew Worthy/Reyes/Still wouldn’t last ‘til 2nd round pick; just like he knew CM3 was about to be picked; just like Wolf knew Driver wouldn't be drafted. And sure other teams are going to want a 4.3 UDFA to kick the tires on; but Ted Thompson knew he'd get "last look," which happened: The Pack offered 5K, it was I believe the Bears that offered 7,500; Ted Thompson matched it and Shields came to GB; just as Ted Thompson stellarly anticipated.

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#242

TT did not have CJ Wilson rated ahead of Shields. If you learn how GMs, especially TT, do their job it would help you on your Blues-Brothers-type Mission from God to rid the universe of Packer Fans that nonsensically gush over TT. BTW, I know and met many and read several Packer Boards for a # of years and I have yet to see any Packer Fan nonsensically gushing over TT. You should question either the mission or the God that sent you on it.

You envision Ted Thompson drafting like you would, knowing what you know. You find a draftnik top 100 and if at pick #62, Ted Thompson takes #63, you’ll scream REACH! All your instincts of how a draft should be conducted are just wrong and this is why you have such difficulty accurately evaluating them. You dont understand tiers, you dont understand how scouts develop relationships, you dont understand how GMs/scouts gather intel on what other teams are thinking and because you dont understand it, you deny its reality. Please pay attention and learn a nugget or two:

In reality, at this point in the draft Ted Thompson will have between 10-50 players in a tier. CJ and Shields were in the same tier, no one rated higher than the other. Ted Thompson then sorted through several variables to determine who’s picked: special teams play; depth of team’s position group; is there an outstanding trait; max upside; who, if not picked can likely or less likely be signed as an UDFA; etc. The Packers had been gushing over Sammy for a year since he was converted to CB at Miami’s spring game. Shields was a 4.3 WR that could not get on the field because he could not grasp the playbook; a very poor candidate to learn a new position so late. He had a daughter at 17 and another 3 years later; suspended twice for academics and was arrested for pot a week before his pro day. Eliot was the only one on the Sammy trail until he ran that 4.3 at his pro day, then the pretender GMs took notice. Ted Thompson saw his HUGE upside; he was a good gunner and ran a 4.3 at a position of need; and Ted Thompson was assured Sammy was not a character risk despite a resume to the contrary. There is NO WAY Ted Thompson passes on Shields if he is not assured he’s signing as an UDFA, just like Wolf w/ Driver, only difference is Driver gave no assurance like Sammy did, so Ron had to draft him.

Again Ted Thompson did know Shields wouldn't be drafted; just like he knew Worthy/Reyes/Still wouldn’t last ‘til 2nd round pick; just like he knew CM3 was about to be picked; just like Wolf knew Driver wouldn't be drafted. And sure other teams are going to want a 4.3 UDFA to kick the tires on; but Ted Thompson knew he'd get "last look," which happened: The Pack offered 5K, it was I believe the Bears that offered 7,500; Ted Thompson matched it and Shields came to GB; just as Ted Thompson stellarly anticipated.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn

Total nonsense. You're saying TT, or someone from the Packers org tampered with Shields? Why pay him 7500 signing bonus, if you were so sure he was going to be yours prior to getting to the negotiating point during the draft.

Plus, you, for all your loquaciousness, seem to have forgotten that there are hundreds of guys who renege on deals right after the draft...guys change their minds all the time, but you know more about the draft than me...that I'm sure of.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

Barfarn
Senior Member

9 years ago

#243

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

TOTAL POPPYCOCK...LOL

Read again please: Ted Thompson knew he'd get "last look;" Bears offered 7.5K; Ted Thompson matched. That is why 7.5K was paid, which is high for TT.

Part of being a man is acting honorably and successfully evaluating the honor in others and is a quality that Ted Thompson and his staff possess. Sammy was correctly judged a man of honor by Ted Thompson and his staff. And as stated in my allegedly "loquacious [Better words would be: wordy, verbose, voluminous, prolix]" post above and having analyzed many of your responses you tend to assume that your belief system and values are the same in all of us. This is why you think your opinion is ipso facto persuasive and requires no supporting facts or authority. This is also why you cant comprehend two men making a deal and keeping it and why you would misrepresent that I said Ted Thompson tampered w/ Shields and provided no basis for such a statement.

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#244

Originally Posted by: Barfarn

I have never seen anyone make so many assumptions. What supporting "facts" do you have? Oh, you "verbosely" state what happened with Ted Thompson and Sam Shields as if you were there. As if you knew the mind of Sam and the mind of TT. I don't care if you were either one, you still wouldn't know for certain what the other party was going to do.

No response to the tampering charge? Just gloss right over as if that isn't part of the scenario you tried BS'ing your way though.

Man of honor? Ted Thompson knows this quality? Oh, so there's never been a dishonorable man in Green Bay? What about the incident that Clay Matthews was a part of involving those strippers that got swept under the rug? Hey, the cover up was great...give that oft injured guy a huge contract extension because he's Packer people. Yup...let the cult sing...koombaya...koombaya.... dixie cups up.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

mi_keys
Senior Member

9 years ago

#245

Barfarn, I'd say its a bit much to say Ted Thompson knew these players would fall or would not fall. I'm sure they had reasons to believe a player may or may not fall, educated guesses based on what intel they could gather. But it's still a bit much to say he knew for sure how far a player may or may not fall.

Born and bred a cheesehead

QCHuskerFan
Member

9 years ago

#246

Originally Posted by: Barfarn

Are you recently retired? Recent lottery winner?

Why else would someone waste time developing a well thought out point just to wrestle with pigs?

Good luck! But you're wasting time and energy trying to convince Chicken Little the sky is not falling.

BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

9 years ago

#247

Originally Posted by: mi_keys

I think Ted Thompson is a risk taker, but a calculated risk taker. I've spent more time on this subject than I cared to. I'm gonna go onto other things because some folks just do not want hear the other side of the debate with openness.

Barfarn
Senior Member

9 years ago

#248

Originally Posted by: mi_keys

MI, I think that's fair. The English language is such a pain in the arse...LOL

Well if you go back, the clarifying phrase used earlier was: "knew to a reasonable degree of certainty;" but that's alot to type over and over again as Uffda executes his mission from God to flambé Ted Thompson at every turn, LOL. I'll continue only to alleviate Uffda's incessant harping on the subject.

Colloquially, the word "know" is often used in context of future events and it's intuitively implied by the communicator and inferred by the communicatee as NOT meaning an absolute certainty. EG, if asked, in what order will 5 tasks be performed, a response might be, "not sure, but I know that first task will be X." More subtly one might ask where you going? Answer: "to K-Mart." What is being communicated is "I know I'm going to K-mart." Again everyone instinctively understands there are thousands of unpredictable events that could interfere w/ the "knowledge" that one will be doing task X or driving to K-Mart because it’s in context of a future event.

Right now Ted Thompson doesn't "know" who will be there at 30; he can only postulate or take an educated guess. But, when NE was on the clock at 26 in 2009; Ted Thompson was not postulating, assuming, believing or taking an educated guess that someone was gonna take CM3. There was critical factual intel invoking extremely strong predictive indicators that CM3’s pick was imminent. These factual predictive indicators were just as strong as one saying, I know I'm going to K-mart. Ted Thompson "knew" he better act or he'd lose CM3.

You must look at Shields based on what was known in 2010. It's actually amazing that Ted Thompson would pay a bonus, let alone a relatively huge bonus for TT, given Shields' résumé. Eliot saw something really special in Sammy, above and beyond what the average scout sees and TT, working against every instinct he has, trusted Eliot's knowledge on the subject. Now was this because Eliot has special skills; or was he super tuned into Sammy; or did GB’s connections w/ Miami gave them kinda like “insider’s trading” insights? Or was it all three? TT’s belief that Shields would not be drafted was not postulation; the FACTS created predictive indicators that metamorphosed TT's belief into "knowledge." He "knew" that Shields would not be drafted and that he'd get a chance to match any offer as an UDFA.

Now, could an unpredictable event interfere with Ted Thompson “knowledge” of a future event, sure! Maybe right after Al Davis picks Stevie Brown at #251, a scout shows Davis Shields’ 40 is a typo, 5.28 to 4.28. Davis pounds his fist on the table and yells “curses” and trades a 2011 1st rounder for pick #252 and grabs Shields.

Barfarn
Senior Member

9 years ago

#249

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan

LOL, quite true..."to argue w/ a fool proves there are two." Doris Smith

But, he is a Packer Brethren and ya gotta kinda feel sorry for a person who needs such attention or a linguistics lesson every now and then. LOL Ya cant convince someone that came to a belief through childish irrationality w/ rational argument; but, much of mine [and others] writing is about [what I think are interesting] historical facts and insights. Incorporating UDFAs in draft grades is interesting debate and the corollary Shields story is a good one about not only TT, but our next GM. And the Favre story and notion that Ted Thompson is 1000% more conservative than Ron Wolf, looks true on the surface; but discussion showing similarities is interesting.

Of course these discussions would have been more fruitful w/o purposeful sabotage.

Barfarn
Senior Member

9 years ago

#250

No response to the tampering charge? Just gloss right over as if that isn't part of the scenario you tried BS'ing your way though.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

You asked if i was saying Ted Thompson was tampering with Shields...I answered quite emphatically "NO."

This is directed to no one in particular. LOL If one is trying to receive a response by making a charge through innuendo in question form. I'd offer this quote:

"Speak straightforwardly like a man and quit whispering your thoughts through a paper a$$hole" - Barfarn

[Now that's pretty funny, LOL]

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packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky

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Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

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Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?

beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.

beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.

beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality

beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't

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