Zero2Cool
10 years ago
Oops, just noticed you edited a post.

EDIT: BTW, do you have a LINK to ANYTHING I've posted about PFF that is inaccurate? You make me smile...you think I made "blank" up? Nope. I asked you last night who these guys were...you were a subscriber and DID NOT KNOW. That's pretty amazing to me...you waste your own money on something and don't even care to know who you're giving it to? I didn't care to know about PFF's people because they don't mean anything to me. Last night after your nice chart trying to validate the wonders of Corey Linsley I decided to look for myself...took me just a few minutes of research to realize their 2013 grade on EDS is higher than Linsley's current grade and the main grader over there is a guy who studied ecology in the United Kingdom. I not for your subscription and you were starting at this fresh and you knew their site was run by some UK guys WHO DO NOT KNOW FOOTBALL nor have ANY BACKGROUND IN IT, you would conclude like me that these amateurs are highly questionable. You like to tout who uses them...Jimmy Haslam used a HOMELESS MAN in picking Manziel. Your sad deification of things like PFF are no surprise considering how you pedestalize other things you hear. I've been involved in this stuff...did it for years. It's like the Wizard of Oz...it's all a show...not really all that impressive. Look at Mike Florio... a lawyer who got involved with Jason Peery, whom I met and tried to help forge a partnership with at an old network of mine, is now on SNF every single week. It ain't some mystical thing where they're so much better than you, you just believe that and that is your choice. I don't believe it nor do I hail them or think what they're doing is some great accomplishment.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Sorry, where did I say I didn't know anything about the analysts? Please quote me and bring that to my attention. Prior to subscribing, I noticed many high profile (ESPN, SI, FOX Sports) and local media who trust them and after researching a bit on my own figured the reward was worth the risk.

It appears you seek any means to discredit them, even if it means twisting quotes from over three years ago out of context to do so and ignoring 7 years of experience in the process. I don't know how you can watch and analyze over 1,700 NFL games and not know anything about the game. That accusation is just mind boggling to me.
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earthquake
10 years ago
You are right, I had no idea the guy was from the UK or had an ecology major, nor do I find it the smoking gun you seem to, and I still fail to see the relevance to the topic at hand.

What if you started up a similar service? Well, this is entirely theoretical, so its not really worth much brain power to ponder. Why don't you put your money where you mouth is and actually start the service? You seem dead set on the idea that you could do it as well as anyone else, so why don't you actually do it? I can claim to be able to perform any task as well as any other individual that is known for that task, but talking is one thing and doing is something entirely different.

So, what do you have, the ability to talk, or the ability to do? Without actually proving to me that you can rate players (not one or two but the entire league) just as accurately as PFF, your argument rings hollow.
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uffda udfa
10 years ago

Oops, just noticed you edited a post.


Sorry, where did I say I didn't know anything about the analysts? Please quote me and bring that to my attention. Prior to subscribing, I noticed many high profile (ESPN, SI, FOX Sports) and local media who trust them and after researching a bit on my own figured the reward was worth the risk.

It appears you seek any means to discredit them, even if it means twisting quotes from over three years ago out of context to do so and ignoring 7 years of experience in the process. I don't know how you can watch and analyze over 1,700 NFL games and not know anything about the game. That accusation is just mind boggling to me.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Your silence was deafening last night. YOU DID NOT KNOW...what you did know is exactly what you posted last night that they are used by ESPN, FOX, etc... that does NOT mean you knew about the analysts because you didn't. You ASSUMED they were legit guys because you saw them quoted on sources you trust. However, you never thought to look at whether ESPN, FOX, etc. were making good decisions in trusting them. Sadly, I had to tell you about the analysts you pay to read and believe. Those are facts.

It would be nice of instead of false bravado you could just calmly and politely admit you had no idea who was putting out the ratings you were paying for. Nope. Have to go around and around and try intimating you did know when you know and I know that you didn't. it's okay...I didn't know either but then again I wasn't paying them nor do I hold them in high regard.


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


uffda udfa
10 years ago

You are right, I had no idea the guy was from the UK or had an ecology major, nor do I find it the smoking gun you seem to, and I still fail to see the relevance to the topic at hand.

What if you started up a similar service? Well, this is entirely theoretical, so its not really worth much brain power to ponder. Why don't you put your money where you mouth is and actually start the service? You seem dead set on the idea that you could do it as well as anyone else, so why don't you actually do it? I can claim to be able to perform any task as well as any other individual that is known for that task, but talking is one thing and doing is something entirely different.

So, what do you have, the ability to talk, or the ability to do? Without actually proving to me that you can rate players (not one or two but the entire league) just as accurately as PFF, your argument rings hollow.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



and it rings hollow that PFF has any credibility to do so. You can't change that just because you wish it to be so.


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


earthquake
10 years ago
Right, you don't trust PFF, this much at least is painfully clear.

Now, when does your website launch?
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mi_keys
10 years ago
From Zero's second post:


Regarding their merits, well, ask ESPN, Sports Illustrated, FOX Sports and the dozen of other large outlets that trust their ratings enough to publish the same information in their articles. That's not to say they are the gold standard of ratings and agents should use them to negotiate contracts, lol.

Zero2Cool wrote:



From Zero's fifth post:

If there were some concrete way to evaluating players, don't you think it would be used? There is no 100% accurate measurement. The inclusion of the ProFootballFocus ratings was not, nor was it implied to be the God rating system. It is simply another perspective. Why that can't be understood is really irritating.

Zero2Cool wrote:



From Zero's sixth post:

And no, I am not saying we should 100% trust each rating of every player by ProFootballFocus. I'm simply saying it's a good tool to compare Player A to Player B.

Zero2Cool wrote:



From Zero's ninth post:

I never expected you to change your mind and go OMGoodness PFF is the goodest ever!!! Hell, I don't even think that myself ... I was just trying to shed some light that you could maybe consider the source as part of an evaluation. Unfortunately, you've decided in your arrogant way that only your eye balls accurately grade players. I respect that, even though I think your'e freaking asinine for it, lol.

Zero2Cool wrote:



You now are forced to backtrack and just refer to PFF as a tool to look at as if you're out there comparing various tools to figure out who is performing how. Stop. Just stop. PFF is what it is... you can continue to prop it up for argument sake. That is your call. I know about the site now from doing my own research...research, quite frankly, you should've done BEFORE ever dropping a nickel on their stuff.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

This is that insufferably annoying thing I was talking about where you just fling words around hoping they stick. Anyhow, if I have lead you to believe that ProFootballFocus should be your ONE and ONLY source for player evaluation, my apologies as I was only trying to open you to yet another source of player evaluation.

lol force to backtrack ... that was cute

uffda udfa wrote:



Cute indeed.

Zero, so you know you're not going crazy, there's at least four separate instances in which you previously referred to it as a source, not the be all end all final say in player evaluations.

Uffda: all sizzle, no steak.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Zero2Cool
10 years ago

Your silence was deafening last night. YOU DID NOT KNOW...what you did know is exactly what you posted last night that they are used by ESPN, FOX, etc... that does NOT mean you knew about the analysts because you didn't. You ASSUMED they were legit guys because you saw them quoted on sources you trust. However, you never thought to look at whether ESPN, FOX, etc. were making good decisions in trusting them. Sadly, I had to tell you about the analysts you pay to read and believe. Those are facts.

It would be nice of instead of false bravado you could just calmly and politely admit you had no idea who was putting out the ratings you were paying for. Nope. Have to go around and around and try intimating you did know when you know and I know that you didn't. it's okay...I didn't know either but then again I wasn't paying them nor do I hold them in high regard.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I made the mistake of assuming you would trust ESPN and the like more than the research I did, my fault. Yes, you are right that I was not aware that Ben got some Ecology degree over 7 years ago and quite honestly, I am failing to see how that erases the last 7 seasons of over 1,700 games that he has reviewed and analyzed.

I also knew the more said, the more you would twist it and turn it against me because that is what folks like you do who want to argue for the mere sake of arguing, even when they are likely to be wrong. Please note, I do not think you are wrong for not trusting ProFootballFocus. I understand with what you took out of context how you can discredit them. I just see that as one con vs what I feel are several pro in their favor.
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uffda udfa
10 years ago
Just SMH, mi_keys... I laughed at one of your quotes about agents not using it to negotiate contracts then to see later Zero comes back and posts that IT IS USED BY AGENTS to negotiate contracts. You did a very poor job above but that's expected when you set out with an extreme bias and agenda. I had no such agenda when I set out to ascertain info on PFF. I said before I started that I wouldn't be surprised to find that the ratings are from people like the type you'd find on football boards like this... it was actually WORSE....it's guys over in the UK studying ecology.

Not a single thing above or anywhere in this thread invalidates the fact that an ecology major from the UK is the main cog over there. He has zero credentials to be an analyst but it's been ceded to him due to "time on the job".

Uffda...teaching you things you didn't know and then turning around and acting like you knew them or old Uff didn't teach you in the first place. That's steak my friend.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
10 years ago

From Zero's second post:


From Zero's fifth post:


From Zero's sixth post:


From Zero's ninth post:


Cute indeed.

Zero, so you know you're not going crazy, there's at least four separate instances in which you previously referred to it as a source, not the be all end all final say in player evaluations.

Uffda: all sizzle, no steak.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



Thank you for taking the time to do this. I really appreciate it. Although, I think considering how much time I've wasted with this, I just might be crazy lol
UserPostedImage
earthquake
10 years ago
Hey, did you guys know one guy from PFF was born in the UK and studied ecology?
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Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
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Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Will there be a tracker on the ball or something?
Zero2Cool (1-Apr) : uh oh
Martha Careful (1-Apr) : Too bad camera's can't spot the ball as well.
Mucky Tundra (1-Apr) : So will the chain gang be gone completely or will they still be around as a backup or whatever?
Zero2Cool (1-Apr) : The method for measuring first downs in the NFL will switch from chain gangs to camera-based technology in 2025, the league announced.
Martha Careful (1-Apr) : A big step in the right direction. Just put in the college system is very very good.
Zero2Cool (1-Apr) : NFL has passed a rule that allows both teams to possess the ball in OT during the regular season
Zero2Cool (1-Apr) : Touchbacks on kickoffs will now bring the ball to the 35-yard line.
beast (31-Mar) : It might of gotten more popular recently, but braiding hair (even men) in certain cultures goes back for centuries.
Martha Careful (30-Mar) : Is men braiding their hair a new style thing? Watching the NCAA men's tournament many players have done
Zero2Cool (29-Mar) : Ha. Well, it'd be nice for folks to reset their own password. Via validated email 😏
beast (29-Mar) : Monopoly was supposed to be an educational game, that show how evil capitalism was and how we should avoid it
beast (29-Mar) : Lol, I was thinking username would be better, as then I wouldn't have to keep an email up to date lol 😂
beast (29-Mar) : Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : I was thinking email because I think it'll make folks keep it up todate lol
wpr (29-Mar) : sure is
Zero2Cool (29-Mar) : Monopoly is a rip off of The Landlord's Game
wpr (27-Mar) : 28 days until the draft
earthquake (27-Mar) : Which seemed strange to my 9 year old self, that you could be a fan for a team other than the one you play for
earthquake (27-Mar) : Nothing eventful happened, other than it being clear that he was a bengals fan
earthquake (27-Mar) : And we went and hung out with him one afternoon, I must have been 9 or so
earthquake (27-Mar) : That’s wild, when I was a kid my friend lived in the same apartment complex in De Pere
Mucky Tundra (27-Mar) : Only career highspot was a 200 yard rushing game while playing for the Cardinals
Mucky Tundra (27-Mar) : He is a former Packer. Drafted out of Northern Illinois. Didn't do much in GB.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Despicable
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Former NFL. I think Packers too
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : NFL RB Leshon Johnson has been charged in a massive dog fighting operation, with the FBI seizing over 190 Pit Bulls
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : Some real irony of a QB as short as Wilson playing for the Giants
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Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : Russell Wilson signs with the Giants.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : I was thinking email because I think it'll make folks keep it up todate lol
wpr (25-Mar) : I don't think there is a significant difference. I use a user name for many. Others email.
Martha Careful (25-Mar) : email
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : would it be better to use EMAIL or USERNAME to log into a site?
wpr (25-Mar) : Thanks Zero
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beast (24-Mar) : And the only time they have won the Championship in an even year, was the first time they did, in 2006.
beast (24-Mar) : Since 2007, there have been 10 odd numbered years, Wisconsin Women have won the Championship in 7 of those 10 odd numbered years.
buckeyepackfan (24-Mar) : Congratulations Lady Badger Hockey Team. NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!
Zero2Cool (23-Mar) : I don't think it's completed yet. it was just announced last month, right?
dhazer (23-Mar) : did netflix ever release the Packers documentary
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