musccy
9 years ago
So elementary ed/broadcasting trump ecology? Good to know.

I hear what you're saying, but do you know if Peter King played college football? How about Clayton, Glazer, or Scheffter? I frankly have no clue.
Zero2Cool
9 years ago

Again, again, and again wild accusations and wrongly held beliefs about me and what I've done are used by you to try and discredit me. Have at it. I told you who Ben Stockwell was...somehow, I guess you feel superior for providing the link to exactly what I stated as if that means you've done something?

I would think it might be wise for you to actually read what I've posted before going off half cocked as you have in this post. You might be surprised to see what has already been posted instead of indulging in blind rage for having PFF taken to the woodshed as highly questionable I'm sorry you thought this was some group of people who understood the game doing these ratings.

In the end, you remain comfortable believing the PFF ratings are top notch analytics even though you now know for yourself the MAIN guy at PFF lives in the UK and studied ecology. We've got that on record. Feel free to write another post dripping with feigned outrage making wild unsubstantiated allegations. It's always a trip seeing what you'll come up with next to try to get away from the fact Ben Stockwell is the main guy at PFF.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Your 90% quote was written July 2011. We're talking about the 2013 and 2014 seasons of which they acquired more analysts.

You're insufferably annoying to try and hold a discussion with. I wanted to see your point, I did the research, I did the reading, I dug and came away finding MORE evidence to validate their grading. Evidence that you refuse to acknowledge because of what of (in my opinion) your prejudice of one of the staff being educated and residing overseas.

I never expected you to change your mind and go OMGoodness PFF is the goodest ever!!! Hell, I don't even think that myself ... I was just trying to shed some light that you could maybe consider the source as part of an evaluation. Unfortunately, you've decided in your arrogant way that only your eye balls accurately grade players. I respect that, even though I think your'e freaking asinine for it, lol.

Again, as I have said numerous times and you refuse to understand and acknowledge. ProFootballFocus is not the end all grading evaluation of NFL players. I feel it is just one thing we can use to compare players to other players and several NFL teams use it too. As do a plethora of sports media outlets.


UserPostedImage
macbob
9 years ago

"As of the 2011 season, PFF provides customized data to five NFL teams, along with a number of agents, media and NFL players."

Oh, those fools running NFL teams. Actually paying a UK ecology major to evaluate players.

How many teams are paying you to evaluate players for them, uffda?

Originally Posted by: macbob 



As of 2014 season, 13 teams are paying PFF for their analysis.

It was kind of a big day for Pro Football Focus, the NFL sabermetrics and tape-grading site that has become a major player in a few short years. With a solid writing staff and 12 film graders who work every game from the preseason to the Super Bowl, PFF has become a fairly indispensable tool for those in the media (and in the league) who want to add another dimension to what they do.

Thirteen NFL teams have consulted with PFF and purchased their information for use in their processes...

SI.com wrote:



The article goes on to say that Cris Collinsworth has bought a stake in the company.

But the biggest thing in their favor in the article was Vikings coach Mike Zimmer was skeptical of Pro Football Focus grades, presumably because his players were getting bad ratings.

Article was from back in Aug, just prior to the season starting. Maybe the Vikings/Zimmer should have payed PFF for their player evaluations...

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/08/25/mike-zimmer-minnesota-vikings-pro-football-focus 
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Your 90% quote was written July 2011. We're talking about the 2013 and 2014 seasons of which they acquired more analysts.

You're insufferably annoying to try and hold a discussion with. I wanted to see your point, I did the research, I did the reading, I dug and came away finding MORE evidence to validate their grading. Evidence that you refuse to acknowledge because of what of (in my opinion) your prejudice of one of the staff being educated and residing overseas.

I never expected you to change your mind and go OMGoodness PFF is the goodest ever!!! Hell, I don't even think that myself ... I was just trying to shed some light that you could maybe consider the source as part of an evaluation. Unfortunately, you've decided in your arrogant way that only your eye balls accurately grade players. I respect that, even though I think your'e freaking asinine for it, lol.

Again, as I have said numerous times and you refuse to understand and acknowledge. ProFootballFocus is not the end all grading evaluation of NFL players. I feel it is just one thing we can use to compare players to other players and several NFL teams use it too. As do a plethora of sports media outlets.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Umm...I read the PFF history link before you did and I'm not a subscriber. I read it ALL last night. BTW, I clicked the link here on December 25th, 2014. That link where I read up on them stated Stockwell and Hornsby account for 90% of what you see on the site with Ben Stockwell (UK ecology major) being the MAIN analyst. I thought it important to ascertain the credentials of the MAIN guy at PFF. There aren't any. Yet, I get asked what mine are when the guy who is doing their analysis has...NONE. That's rich and deep as mariana's trench.

You now are forced to backtrack and just refer to PFF as a tool to look at as if you're out there comparing various tools to figure out who is performing how. Stop. Just stop. PFF is what it is... you can continue to prop it up for argument sake. That is your call. I know about the site now from doing my own research...research, quite frankly, you should've done BEFORE ever dropping a nickel on their stuff.



UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
9 years ago
I've been watching football games most of my life and I would say I've watched roughly 50-60 games a year the last 25 years. That's something like 1,500 games over that span.

Then I got to thinking about that Ben Stockwell or however his name is spelled. He's been doing this grading thing since the 2007 season. There's something like 256 games in an NFL season, right?

That means over about a seven year period he has watched and analyzed over 1,700 NFL games.

Think about that for a second. How can you watch that many games, analyzing every one of them and NOT learn a thing or two along the way?

That's just incredible to think about and I bet he hasn't been laid in the same amount of time either lol

UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
9 years ago

Umm...I read the PFF history link before you did and I'm not a subscriber. I read it ALL last night. BTW, I clicked the link here on December 25th, 2014. That link where I read up on them stated Stockwell and Hornsby account for 90% of what you see on the site with Ben Stockwell (UK ecology major) being the MAIN analyst. I thought it important to ascertain the credentials of the MAIN guy at PFF. There aren't any. Yet, I get asked what mine are when the guy who is doing their analysis has...NONE. That's rich and deep as mariana's trench.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 


If you read it, then you already know it was from July 2011. Odd that you didn't mention that at all.

In my estimation Ben has analyzed over 1,700 NFL games to his credit, how many have you watched and analyzed? How many NFL teams come to you for your grading? Sorry, that's not fair to you, you're just a fan, like the rest of us. The point remains.

You now are forced to backtrack and just refer to PFF as a tool to look at as if you're out there comparing various tools to figure out who is performing how. Stop. Just stop. PFF is what it is... you can continue to prop it up for argument sake. That is your call. I know about the site now from doing my own research...research, quite frankly, you should've done BEFORE ever dropping a nickel on their stuff.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 


This is that insufferably annoying thing I was talking about where you just fling words around hoping they stick. Anyhow, if I have lead you to believe that ProFootballFocus should be your ONE and ONLY source for player evaluation, my apologies as I was only trying to open you to yet another source of player evaluation.

lol force to backtrack ... that was cute
UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
9 years ago

If you read it, then you already know it was from July 2011. Odd that you didn't mention that at all.

In my estimation Ben has analyzed over 1,700 NFL games to his credit, how many have you watched and analyzed? How many NFL teams come to you for your grading? Sorry, that's not fair to you, you're just a fan, like the rest of us. The point remains.


This is that insufferably annoying thing I was talking about where you just fling words around hoping they stick. Anyhow, if I have lead you to believe that ProFootballFocus should be your ONE and ONLY source for player evaluation, my apologies as I was only trying to open you to yet another source of player evaluation.

lol force to backtrack ... that was cute

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I'll try really hard this time... to see if this will register with you. I'm going to go down to the local HS and see if I can find the least popular kid in the school and make sure he knows nothing about football. I will then tell him to watch football games for 7 years and give his thoughts on what he THINKS happened. Will you then respect him in the way you respect Ben Stockwell? After all, he will have watched the same amount of games over that 7 year span. The kid I pick surely will pick up some things along the way? Right?

To say that you, me, or ANYONE coudn't do what they've done is my point. What are Ben's credentials? He watches football games and lots of them? What was his level of understanding when he started? If my level of understanding is as good or greater than his then I conclude I could do it as well or better than he could. In my case, I go with better due to being exposed to the NFL for 35+ years.

Yes, you are forced to backtrack and soften your stance on the meaning of PFF stats because you DID NOT KNOW who was giving you the stats in the first place before I asked. You couldn't answer so I had to go find out for myself, and YES you should've known this before plunking down your money. People like you scare me....they hand over money and have this level of trust in something because they've seen it on ESPN so there is no further questions about it. It must be legit...it must be good...it must be right...based on ???????

I'm sure this wasn't fun for you learning who these guys were/are...it would've been more fun pretending they were something other than they are to legitimize their rankings. I think it's pretty clear that to take them seriously is wrong. Laugh at the EDS thing all you'd like. It was YOU who tried validating Linsley's play with THEIR stats without having an opinion of YOUR OWN. To go back and see EDS with a higher grade than Linsley from 2013 was something. So, do you think EDS was a great in 2013? That is what PFF concluded...or was EDS just a guy? If you answer he was just a guy you might want to reconsider using PFF ratings to validate Linsley is a good NFL center.


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


QCHuskerFan
9 years ago

If you read it, then you already know it was from July 2011. Odd that you didn't mention that at all.

In my estimation Ben has analyzed over 1,700 NFL games to his credit, how many have you watched and analyzed? How many NFL teams come to you for your grading? Sorry, that's not fair to you, you're just a fan, like the rest of us. The point remains.


This is that insufferably annoying thing I was talking about where you just fling words around hoping they stick. Anyhow, if I have lead you to believe that ProFootballFocus should be your ONE and ONLY source for player evaluation, my apologies as I was only trying to open you to yet another source of player evaluation.

lol force to backtrack ... that was cute

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Why do you bother?
BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
earthquake
9 years ago
Lets stop beating this ridiculous horse once and for all. First off, everyone realizes that one member of PFF's staff has an ecology major and was born in the UK. Nobody is disputing this, the reason that nobody seems to care is that it is of little or no relevance to the discussion at hand, the quality/accuracy of PFF ratings. You can repeat the same sentiment an infinite amount of times, but that doesn't make it any more correct or relevant, it just makes you look like an idiot hopelessly stuck on some petty bullshit.

I'm not sure you know this, but many of the most successful people have no college education or education unrelated to their profession, a good example would be some moron called Bill Gates, he's a college dropout so he certainly isn't qualified to have an opinion on computer programming or software design, right? Another interesting tidbit, most professional football players have a degree entirely unrelated to playing football, does this discredit these individuals as well?

Where you were born or what you studied in college does not pre-determine what you are capable of doing in life, as is evident countless time throughout history.

Secondly, to the professional comment I made earlier. The very basic definition of a professional is someone who provides a service that others pay for. While I have no doubt PFF started as an amateur ranking website, they are now a widely respected service that many people, including various teams in the NFL pay for their services. This makes them professionals. Having a degree does not make you a professional, having a JOB does.

Here's another basic example. Do you know the difference between an amateur and professional photographer? One gets paid.
blank
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Lets stop beating this ridiculous horse once and for all. First off, everyone realizes that one member of PFF's staff has an ecology major and was born in the UK. Nobody is disputing this, the reason that nobody seems to care is that it is of little or no relevance to the discussion at hand, the quality/accuracy of PFF ratings. You can repeat the same sentiment an infinite amount of times, but that doesn't make it any more correct or relevant, it just makes you look like an idiot hopelessly stuck on some petty bullshit.

I'm not sure you know this, but many of the most successful people have no college education or education unrelated to their profession, a good example would be some moron called Bill Gates, he's a college dropout so he certainly isn't qualified to have an opinion on computer programming or software design, right? Another interesting tidbit, most professional football players have a degree entirely unrelated to playing football, does this discredit these individuals as well?

Where you were born or what you studied in college does not pre-determine what you are capable of doing in life.

Secondly, to the professional comment I made earlier. The very basic definition of a professional is someone who provides a service that others pay for. While I have no doubt PFF started as an amateur ranking website, they are now a widely respected service that many people, including various teams in the NFL pay for their services. This makes them professionals. Having a degree does not make you a professional, having a JOB does.

Here's another basic example. Do you know the difference between an amateur and professional photographer? One gets paid.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Thank you. The number of paragraphs you type does not will not and can not change the fact that Ben Stockwell is the MAIN analyst at PFF. You claim now that I should stop talking about it because YOU ALL KNOW THAT? Not a single one of you knew that until I told you last night. Some of you pay for this stuff and were clueless about it.

I happen to agree with what you've said above about college degree not determining success in life. People are gifted at what they're gifted at. Is Ben Stockwell gifted? You seem to imply that he is. Why? I would guess it's for argument sake.

Just admit you had no idea that PFF was a UK based company and it's main analyst was an ecology major who went to work straight out of UK university. If I did the same thing as him you'd have no respect for me because frankly you wouldn't want to. With this guy, you freely give it up to him as if somehow he's uniquely equipped to do this over me, you or anyone else. He is not. Plain and simple...he isn't but that won't stop you from thinking that he is.




UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


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Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
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beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
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Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
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Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
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Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
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beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
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