StarrMax1
10 years ago

yeah a system where you have to possibly leave better players on the bench because it takes 2 years for them to learn it all doesn't really mesh well with a draft and replace philosophy.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I may be wrong, and let me know if I am, but isn't it draft and develope?
steveishere
10 years ago

I may be wrong, and let me know if I am, but isn't it draft and develope?

Originally Posted by: StarrMax1 



Both, but I was referring to the way we tend to let older vets walk instead of paying the extra cash to keep them. The way Dom seems to want to run his scheme we would put more emphasis on keeping those guys around until they completely wear out. We'd hang onto guys like Cullen Jenkins, Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett even though they are in decline because they are the players on the team that really know the system.
play2win
10 years ago

yeah a system where you have to possibly leave better players on the bench because it takes 2 years for them to learn it all doesn't really mesh well with a draft and replace philosophy.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Right. That kind of pissed me off last season with regards to Datone Jones getting so few snaps.

McCarthy clearly went to the front in assuming a larger presence on defense this offseason, and I wouldn't doubt he had some issues with Capers. McCarthy knows this is important, Ted got the players, Dom has the support and the players he needs to make it happen. Either this defense improves by a great margin or he is out. In Capers' defense in the argument, the lack of players and poor player availability have kept him from succeeding.

McCarthy knows with this offense, all we need is a solid D, some good health and we can ring up another Lombardi. I can't believe it took this long to get a Safety and pass rush opposite Matthews.
Zero2Cool
10 years ago
I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.
UserPostedImage
play2win
10 years ago

I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I love that and glad to hear it. Simple. Let the quality play makers make plays. Dom got way too cute with what he was trying to do over these last 3 seasons, and, actually, he didn't have the play makers, many of whom were riding the hot tub.

Player availability will be HUGE for this Packers team in 2014. Hopefully we see this turn in our favor for a change this year. That, with a simplified scheme on D should help this team top to bottom.
uffda udfa
10 years ago

Both, but I was referring to the way we tend to let older vets walk instead of paying the extra cash to keep them. The way Dom seems to want to run his scheme we would put more emphasis on keeping those guys around until they completely wear out. We'd hang onto guys like Cullen Jenkins, Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett even though they are in decline because they are the players on the team that really know the system.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



We seem to keep the wrong guys around IE: AJ Hawk. Perhaps, we've kept him because he's one of the few guys who understood the complexity of the scheme and could call it out properly. If they've dumbed it down perhaps we can finally move on from AJ.

It won't be this year due to salary cap ramifications, but I've been waiting for the day Hawk is no longer a Packer.

Hoping we can get rid of all the turds on D that are only there because they understand the D, not because they can actually make plays.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


DarkaneRules
10 years ago
"I hope it works as well as it did that year," Capers said. "We've done that, really, since we've been here. The first year we came in, there's a reason why Charles Woodson was the Defensive Player of the Year. He's a good player, and you do a lot of good things to feature your best players."

Another quote, this time from Capers, also echoing fan and analyst sentiment. Is Peppers the new veteran leader possibility replacing Woodson? Time will tell.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
StarrMax1
10 years ago

We seem to keep the wrong guys around IE: AJ Hawk. Perhaps, we've kept him because he's one of the few guys who understood the complexity of the scheme and could call it out properly. If they've dumbed it down perhaps we can finally move on from AJ.

It won't be this year due to salary cap ramifications, but I've been waiting for the day Hawk is no longer a Packer.

Hoping we can get rid of all the turds on D that are only there because they understand the D, not because they can actually make plays.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I have never understood all the hate for A.J Hawk, but not going to argue with anyone, you get 4 LBr's who play every game, and sooner or later (probably sooner), a team is going to have 4 guys who can just react and play football, not needing to worry about the other 3's assignments.

One could probably say that for any group, it just seems the LBr's position has been decimated the past few years, I might check this, just see how many different guys Hawk has been on the field with since 2010.
El3ment12
10 years ago

I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I hate playing qbs like Drew Brees using a zone defense. We get picked apart all day long.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
I hope all you "its scheme problems and injury problems" people are correct. That's its simply a matter of staying healthy and not putting square pegs into round holes.

Personally, I think its been more of not having anywhere near enough round pegs or square pegs. That Capers has been forced to try to fill holes with smoke and mirrors.

To me the question on defense are all about the quality of personnel:
1. How good is Peppers at this stage of his career? Is he more like Reggie White or more like Joe Johnson? I'm real hopeful here.
2. How long will it take Clinton-Dix to play safety at the level needed? Burnett isn't quite there yet. Collins took a couple years. So did Butler. I'm not old to remember if Willie Wood did. He's going to be good, but I also thing you're going to see a lot of rookie "miscommunication," "bad angle," and "missed tackle" examples. What I really want to see is how his closing speed looks.
3. Will Raji finally become a consistent top-end player? It's possible. I'm not holding my breadth.
4. Will Thornton push for more and more reps, increasing the competition level at DT. Maybe. I'm not holding my breadth.
5. Will Perry show more than flashes? I'm not holding my breadth.
6. Will Datone Jones show significant growth? Maybe. I just don't know. I want to be optimistic.
7. Will they switch Bradford to ILB and will he push Brad Jones into a role player? I really hope so. IMO if Clinton-Dix will be the most important rookie determinant of how much the defense improves, Bradford will be the second, which leads me to the last one:
8. How many plays will Brad Jones and Micah Hyde be on the field. The higher this number, the more we will be bitching about a lack of improvement.
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Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : The only team I know is Texas from that. Who are the other three?
Mucky Tundra (9-Jan) : Notre Lame vs Pedo St tonight and the Luckeyes vs Texas tomorrow
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Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : @AaronNagler · 2m Both Jordan Love and Malik Willis were Limited participants at Packers practice today.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson didn't make it until 2020. Ring 2023. 🤷 Personally, he should have been in years prior to Hall.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : HUMP DAY
beast (8-Jan) : Guys that have a good shot at making the NFL Hall of Fame usually get into their teams pretty fast
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Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson was Hall of Fame, 2020. Should haev been in Ring a year later, not three years.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I could be wrong there though
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Guys like Kampman, Tim Harris, Al Harris, etc all over 15 years. Hall of Fame is 5 year wait
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I guess I see players in Packers Hall come way later
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, usually teams hall of fames are a much lower bar than the NFL
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : is it uncommon for Hall before Ring?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : S Xavier McKinney named first-team All-Pro by NFLPA
beast (8-Jan) : I missed it, sorry, but he got into the NFL Hall of Fame years before that
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Jones took his sweet ole time!
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Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Didn't they have a thing in 2023 for Jimmy's ring of honor? I swear I saw it
beast (8-Jan) : Though if they're legitimately trying to re-sign MM, then it makes sense.
beast (8-Jan) : Jerry Jones still hasn't put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor, but he's in the NFL's Hall of Fame, Jones is petty
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : Unless the Cowboys are planning an extension, seems kinda petty
beast (8-Jan) : Cowboys denied Bears request
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : From what I'm reading, MM is under contract through the 14th of January; after that he's free game
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : McCarthy let go or not extended??
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Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : The winners page that is
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beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
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Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats beast on 2024 !
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Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Packers have $60M+ of 2025 cap space on paper TODAY.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Missed FG into a Lions TD; that'll do pig, that'll do
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : That might be it for the Vikings
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Oh so the refs do know what intentional grounding is
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : what the hell was that Goff?! Not much pressure and he just air mails it to Harrison
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : They really need to to get rid of the auto first down for illegal contact
Martha Careful (6-Jan) : watching the Vikings and Lions it's understandable why they swept the Packers. So much better product
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Even when GB got pressure he was throwing darts; vs no pressure on that last pass he just air mails an open guy
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