StarrMax1
10 years ago

yeah a system where you have to possibly leave better players on the bench because it takes 2 years for them to learn it all doesn't really mesh well with a draft and replace philosophy.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I may be wrong, and let me know if I am, but isn't it draft and develope?
steveishere
10 years ago

I may be wrong, and let me know if I am, but isn't it draft and develope?

Originally Posted by: StarrMax1 



Both, but I was referring to the way we tend to let older vets walk instead of paying the extra cash to keep them. The way Dom seems to want to run his scheme we would put more emphasis on keeping those guys around until they completely wear out. We'd hang onto guys like Cullen Jenkins, Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett even though they are in decline because they are the players on the team that really know the system.
play2win
10 years ago

yeah a system where you have to possibly leave better players on the bench because it takes 2 years for them to learn it all doesn't really mesh well with a draft and replace philosophy.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Right. That kind of pissed me off last season with regards to Datone Jones getting so few snaps.

McCarthy clearly went to the front in assuming a larger presence on defense this offseason, and I wouldn't doubt he had some issues with Capers. McCarthy knows this is important, Ted got the players, Dom has the support and the players he needs to make it happen. Either this defense improves by a great margin or he is out. In Capers' defense in the argument, the lack of players and poor player availability have kept him from succeeding.

McCarthy knows with this offense, all we need is a solid D, some good health and we can ring up another Lombardi. I can't believe it took this long to get a Safety and pass rush opposite Matthews.
Zero2Cool
10 years ago
I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.
UserPostedImage
play2win
10 years ago

I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I love that and glad to hear it. Simple. Let the quality play makers make plays. Dom got way too cute with what he was trying to do over these last 3 seasons, and, actually, he didn't have the play makers, many of whom were riding the hot tub.

Player availability will be HUGE for this Packers team in 2014. Hopefully we see this turn in our favor for a change this year. That, with a simplified scheme on D should help this team top to bottom.
uffda udfa
10 years ago

Both, but I was referring to the way we tend to let older vets walk instead of paying the extra cash to keep them. The way Dom seems to want to run his scheme we would put more emphasis on keeping those guys around until they completely wear out. We'd hang onto guys like Cullen Jenkins, Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett even though they are in decline because they are the players on the team that really know the system.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



We seem to keep the wrong guys around IE: AJ Hawk. Perhaps, we've kept him because he's one of the few guys who understood the complexity of the scheme and could call it out properly. If they've dumbed it down perhaps we can finally move on from AJ.

It won't be this year due to salary cap ramifications, but I've been waiting for the day Hawk is no longer a Packer.

Hoping we can get rid of all the turds on D that are only there because they understand the D, not because they can actually make plays.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


DarkaneRules
10 years ago
"I hope it works as well as it did that year," Capers said. "We've done that, really, since we've been here. The first year we came in, there's a reason why Charles Woodson was the Defensive Player of the Year. He's a good player, and you do a lot of good things to feature your best players."

Another quote, this time from Capers, also echoing fan and analyst sentiment. Is Peppers the new veteran leader possibility replacing Woodson? Time will tell.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
StarrMax1
10 years ago

We seem to keep the wrong guys around IE: AJ Hawk. Perhaps, we've kept him because he's one of the few guys who understood the complexity of the scheme and could call it out properly. If they've dumbed it down perhaps we can finally move on from AJ.

It won't be this year due to salary cap ramifications, but I've been waiting for the day Hawk is no longer a Packer.

Hoping we can get rid of all the turds on D that are only there because they understand the D, not because they can actually make plays.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I have never understood all the hate for A.J Hawk, but not going to argue with anyone, you get 4 LBr's who play every game, and sooner or later (probably sooner), a team is going to have 4 guys who can just react and play football, not needing to worry about the other 3's assignments.

One could probably say that for any group, it just seems the LBr's position has been decimated the past few years, I might check this, just see how many different guys Hawk has been on the field with since 2010.
El3ment12
10 years ago

I've retold this before too and since it fits. You get to hear it again. 2010 the Packers had a lot of injuries and a reporter asked what was different towards the end of the season. The response was the defense was toned down and made less complicated.

We always hear about how players should react, not think. Yet, defenses and offenses are always trying to out scheme the other. I prefer the simplicity of beat your guy, your team beats their team. It is that simple. Yes, this could be construed as a complaint about zone defenses, which I do not find much use for.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I hate playing qbs like Drew Brees using a zone defense. We get picked apart all day long.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
I hope all you "its scheme problems and injury problems" people are correct. That's its simply a matter of staying healthy and not putting square pegs into round holes.

Personally, I think its been more of not having anywhere near enough round pegs or square pegs. That Capers has been forced to try to fill holes with smoke and mirrors.

To me the question on defense are all about the quality of personnel:
1. How good is Peppers at this stage of his career? Is he more like Reggie White or more like Joe Johnson? I'm real hopeful here.
2. How long will it take Clinton-Dix to play safety at the level needed? Burnett isn't quite there yet. Collins took a couple years. So did Butler. I'm not old to remember if Willie Wood did. He's going to be good, but I also thing you're going to see a lot of rookie "miscommunication," "bad angle," and "missed tackle" examples. What I really want to see is how his closing speed looks.
3. Will Raji finally become a consistent top-end player? It's possible. I'm not holding my breadth.
4. Will Thornton push for more and more reps, increasing the competition level at DT. Maybe. I'm not holding my breadth.
5. Will Perry show more than flashes? I'm not holding my breadth.
6. Will Datone Jones show significant growth? Maybe. I just don't know. I want to be optimistic.
7. Will they switch Bradford to ILB and will he push Brad Jones into a role player? I really hope so. IMO if Clinton-Dix will be the most important rookie determinant of how much the defense improves, Bradford will be the second, which leads me to the last one:
8. How many plays will Brad Jones and Micah Hyde be on the field. The higher this number, the more we will be bitching about a lack of improvement.
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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