[2011] Green Bay Packers vs Detroit Lions· Page 12

DoddPower
Veteran Member

13 years ago

the entire defense has suffered from the loss of jenkins. his force on the line opened up opportunities for players all over our defense.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20

If Jenkins truly was what made this defense so good last season, letting him go was a major mis-calculation. I know there's more to it than that, but I'm not exactly sure what is it.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

13 years ago

#112

Cullen Jenkins presence did help, but he took less money to sign with the Eagles. Granted, he probably would have taken even less if the Packers secured him prior to free agency and left more out of spite. I had assumed since he had a ring he'd take top dollar. Shows what I know.

I think saying Cullen Jenkins is why the Packers defense ranked last in yards is more hyperbole than accurate. When you go from say Nick Collins and Charlie Peprah to Charlie Peprah and Morgan Burnett, you lose a LOT of experience and communication. And you can see communication breakdowns all of the time in the Packers secondary. That is why teams are able to pass on the Packers so often and also because this season teams are trying to play catch up knowing they are in a shoot out with the Packers.

So yes, losing Cullen Jenkins hurt, but let's be realistic here ... losing Nick Collins hurt far more and his absence has more to do with the low ranking than Cullen Jenkins. Packers would have liked to have those 5.5 sacks from Cullen Jenkins, no doubt.

Edit, whoa, Cullen Jenkins only had 0.5 in the last 11 games he played this season.

nerdmann
Premier Member

13 years ago

#113

It's losing Mike Neal that hurt us. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

gbguy20
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#114

Cullen Jenkins presence did help, but he took less money to sign with the Eagles. Granted, he probably would have taken even less if the Packers secured him prior to free agency and left more out of spite. I had assumed since he had a ring he'd take top dollar. Shows what I know.

I think saying Cullen Jenkins is why the Packers defense ranked last in yards is more hyperbole than accurate. When you go from say Nick Collins and Charlie Peprah to Charlie Peprah and Morgan Burnett, you lose a LOT of experience and communication. And you can see communication breakdowns all of the time in the Packers secondary. That is why teams are able to pass on the Packers so often and also because this season teams are trying to play catch up knowing they are in a shoot out with the Packers.

So yes, losing Cullen Jenkins hurt, but let's be realistic here ... losing Nick Collins hurt far more and his absence has more to do with the low ranking than Cullen Jenkins. Packers would have liked to have those 5.5 sacks from Cullen Jenkins, no doubt.

Edit, whoa, Cullen Jenkins only had 0.5 in the last 11 games he played this season.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

My thought process is while Jenkins gets his own sacks, he certainly would have brought the sack total of everyone else up as well. With his pass rush + the improved pass rush of those around him, who knows how much the loss of nick collins would have affected us then. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of nick collins at all, because i completely agree with you, his loss was huge. But I just feel like when the quarterback has all day to sit in the pocket, no matter how good our secondary is they are going to get torn up.

It's losing Mike Neal that hurt us. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

I'd like to say, the thing that hurt us was relying on an unproven guy to replace the large presence that jenkins was. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan....but the plan was awful, in my opinion. Hindsight, I guess.

BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.

DoddPower
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#115

But I just feel like when the quarterback has all day to sit in the pocket, no matter how good our secondary is they are going to get torn up.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20

I agree with this. Improved secondary play would definitely help us, but with an anemic pass rush, an elite QB will throw someone open much more so than not. I think our coverage would hold up better with Collins in there, but in the end, just like at the beginning of the season, teams would move the ball at will on us with this pass rush. I would expect even more interceptions with Collins on the field, though, which would changes things a little. The bottom line is we HAVE to generate more pressure, especially with the play of our secondary.

zombieslayer
Registered

13 years ago

#116

I think it was a two-pronged problem. C Jenkins brought a lot of pressure and I actually rated him as Elite when it came to 3-4 DL. I had the stats to back up my Elite rating but that was last year. Not in the mood to go digging for them.

Then as Zero mentioned, let's not forget Nick Collins. Collins was an INT machine and had excellent communication skills. Yes, I too have seen communication breakdowns in the secondary this year. A lot.

So we lost 2 of our top 5 D players. C Jenkins > Raji, despite the hype Raji generates. Raji is Good, but he isn't Elite. Collins is Elite as well. The only other 2 defenders I'd rank as Elite are Woodson and CM3.

T Williams has the potential to be an Elite player. Sam Shields does as well. Neither have reached that status yet though but they're young.

Maybe I'm wrong, but Raji seemed like he was considerably better in '10 than in '11.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

13 years ago

#117

I should be clear, by pointing out Cullen Jenkins sacks and mentioning his last 11 games, I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped. I think his presence opposite Clay Matthews III would have helped the defense overall. Right now, offenses can load up on Clay and worry not about much else in the box. I still feel the loss of Nick Collins is far more reason for the Packers defense giving up more yards this season than last. Without solid communication, you won't get far. Hell, look at the Patriots when they were doing good on defense. They didn't have any real big name players, but they communicated well and were smart players. I think the biggest name they had was Rodney Harrison ... you guessed it ... good communicator!!

zombieslayer
Registered

13 years ago

#118

But you can make up for an average to below average secondary with QB pressure, as we saw in the Giants vs Pats SB. The Giants' secondary was average at best. They won because Brady never had time to exploit it.

So I stick with the problem is two-fold.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

13 years ago

#119

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer

I believe I stated it was as well two fold. I just feel the bigger ... ah ... fold? is Nick Collins absence. 🙂

DoddPower
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#120

I believe I stated it was as well two fold. I just feel the bigger ... ah ... fold? is Nick Collins absence. :)

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

We've been down this road several times before, and while I don't mean to minimize the significant of losing Collins, I still disagree. The best communication and coverage in the world will only last so long. Eventually, an elite QB is going to throw someone open, especially the likes of a Jimmy Graham, Sproles, Nicks, Cruz, Calvin Johnson, etc. That's why you always hear the "plan" to disrupt elite QBs like Brady et. al. is to pressure them and make them uncomfortable. If they're standing still taking their time in the pocket, they're going to hit someone enough to score significant points. Defenses HAVE to find some way to make the QB uncomfortable in the pocket or it's going to be a LONG day for them.

Pass rush can mask a weak secondary, but a great secondary can only mask for a lack of pass rush to a certain extent. Eventually, some type of pressure is going to be necessary to make some key stops. Obviously that's just my opinion and there is no right or wrong, but there it is.

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Zero2Cool (11h) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying

dfosterf (14h) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount

dfosterf (14h) : Trade, cut or keep

dfosterf (16h) : that from Jaire

dfosterf (16h) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'

Zero2Cool (16h) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"

dfosterf (16h) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it

Zero2Cool (16h) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.

dfosterf (16h) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent

dfosterf (16h) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility

dfosterf (16h) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission

dfosterf (16h) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers

Zero2Cool (16h) : That someone ... likely the agent.

Zero2Cool (16h) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.

Zero2Cool (16h) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.

Zero2Cool (17h) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.

dfosterf (18h) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"

dfosterf (18h) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that

dfosterf (18h) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.

dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move

dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.

dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation

Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what

Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife

Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately

Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.

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Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?

Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?

Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb

wpr (9-Apr) : yay

Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland

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Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you

Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.

Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.

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