[2011] Green Bay Packers vs Detroit Lions· Page 12

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

the entire defense has suffered from the loss of jenkins. his force on the line opened up opportunities for players all over our defense.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20

If Jenkins truly was what made this defense so good last season, letting him go was a major mis-calculation. I know there's more to it than that, but I'm not exactly sure what is it.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#112

Cullen Jenkins presence did help, but he took less money to sign with the Eagles. Granted, he probably would have taken even less if the Packers secured him prior to free agency and left more out of spite. I had assumed since he had a ring he'd take top dollar. Shows what I know.

I think saying Cullen Jenkins is why the Packers defense ranked last in yards is more hyperbole than accurate. When you go from say Nick Collins and Charlie Peprah to Charlie Peprah and Morgan Burnett, you lose a LOT of experience and communication. And you can see communication breakdowns all of the time in the Packers secondary. That is why teams are able to pass on the Packers so often and also because this season teams are trying to play catch up knowing they are in a shoot out with the Packers.

So yes, losing Cullen Jenkins hurt, but let's be realistic here ... losing Nick Collins hurt far more and his absence has more to do with the low ranking than Cullen Jenkins. Packers would have liked to have those 5.5 sacks from Cullen Jenkins, no doubt.

Edit, whoa, Cullen Jenkins only had 0.5 in the last 11 games he played this season.

nerdmann
Premier Member

12 years ago

#113

It's losing Mike Neal that hurt us. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

gbguy20
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#114

Cullen Jenkins presence did help, but he took less money to sign with the Eagles. Granted, he probably would have taken even less if the Packers secured him prior to free agency and left more out of spite. I had assumed since he had a ring he'd take top dollar. Shows what I know.

I think saying Cullen Jenkins is why the Packers defense ranked last in yards is more hyperbole than accurate. When you go from say Nick Collins and Charlie Peprah to Charlie Peprah and Morgan Burnett, you lose a LOT of experience and communication. And you can see communication breakdowns all of the time in the Packers secondary. That is why teams are able to pass on the Packers so often and also because this season teams are trying to play catch up knowing they are in a shoot out with the Packers.

So yes, losing Cullen Jenkins hurt, but let's be realistic here ... losing Nick Collins hurt far more and his absence has more to do with the low ranking than Cullen Jenkins. Packers would have liked to have those 5.5 sacks from Cullen Jenkins, no doubt.

Edit, whoa, Cullen Jenkins only had 0.5 in the last 11 games he played this season.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

My thought process is while Jenkins gets his own sacks, he certainly would have brought the sack total of everyone else up as well. With his pass rush + the improved pass rush of those around him, who knows how much the loss of nick collins would have affected us then. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of nick collins at all, because i completely agree with you, his loss was huge. But I just feel like when the quarterback has all day to sit in the pocket, no matter how good our secondary is they are going to get torn up.

It's losing Mike Neal that hurt us. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

I'd like to say, the thing that hurt us was relying on an unproven guy to replace the large presence that jenkins was. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan....but the plan was awful, in my opinion. Hindsight, I guess.

BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#115

But I just feel like when the quarterback has all day to sit in the pocket, no matter how good our secondary is they are going to get torn up.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20

I agree with this. Improved secondary play would definitely help us, but with an anemic pass rush, an elite QB will throw someone open much more so than not. I think our coverage would hold up better with Collins in there, but in the end, just like at the beginning of the season, teams would move the ball at will on us with this pass rush. I would expect even more interceptions with Collins on the field, though, which would changes things a little. The bottom line is we HAVE to generate more pressure, especially with the play of our secondary.

zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

#116

I think it was a two-pronged problem. C Jenkins brought a lot of pressure and I actually rated him as Elite when it came to 3-4 DL. I had the stats to back up my Elite rating but that was last year. Not in the mood to go digging for them.

Then as Zero mentioned, let's not forget Nick Collins. Collins was an INT machine and had excellent communication skills. Yes, I too have seen communication breakdowns in the secondary this year. A lot.

So we lost 2 of our top 5 D players. C Jenkins > Raji, despite the hype Raji generates. Raji is Good, but he isn't Elite. Collins is Elite as well. The only other 2 defenders I'd rank as Elite are Woodson and CM3.

T Williams has the potential to be an Elite player. Sam Shields does as well. Neither have reached that status yet though but they're young.

Maybe I'm wrong, but Raji seemed like he was considerably better in '10 than in '11.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#117

I should be clear, by pointing out Cullen Jenkins sacks and mentioning his last 11 games, I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped. I think his presence opposite Clay Matthews III would have helped the defense overall. Right now, offenses can load up on Clay and worry not about much else in the box. I still feel the loss of Nick Collins is far more reason for the Packers defense giving up more yards this season than last. Without solid communication, you won't get far. Hell, look at the Patriots when they were doing good on defense. They didn't have any real big name players, but they communicated well and were smart players. I think the biggest name they had was Rodney Harrison ... you guessed it ... good communicator!!

zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

#118

But you can make up for an average to below average secondary with QB pressure, as we saw in the Giants vs Pats SB. The Giants' secondary was average at best. They won because Brady never had time to exploit it.

So I stick with the problem is two-fold.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#119

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer

I believe I stated it was as well two fold. I just feel the bigger ... ah ... fold? is Nick Collins absence. 🙂

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#120

I believe I stated it was as well two fold. I just feel the bigger ... ah ... fold? is Nick Collins absence. :)

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

We've been down this road several times before, and while I don't mean to minimize the significant of losing Collins, I still disagree. The best communication and coverage in the world will only last so long. Eventually, an elite QB is going to throw someone open, especially the likes of a Jimmy Graham, Sproles, Nicks, Cruz, Calvin Johnson, etc. That's why you always hear the "plan" to disrupt elite QBs like Brady et. al. is to pressure them and make them uncomfortable. If they're standing still taking their time in the pocket, they're going to hit someone enough to score significant points. Defenses HAVE to find some way to make the QB uncomfortable in the pocket or it's going to be a LONG day for them.

Pass rush can mask a weak secondary, but a great secondary can only mask for a lack of pass rush to a certain extent. Eventually, some type of pressure is going to be necessary to make some key stops. Obviously that's just my opinion and there is no right or wrong, but there it is.

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Zero2Cool (22h) : Even with the context it's ... what?

Mucky Tundra (22h) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”

beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout

beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL

Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.

Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.

beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?

beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources

packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.

packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks

packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.

packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked

Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.

packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?

beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.

bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year

Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league

packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt

Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why

Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.

beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"

Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."

Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme

Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem

buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.

buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.

beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them

buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.

Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal

Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver

Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block

Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline

beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)

Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon

packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2

Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break

wpr (15-Nov) : wow. That three different things for the kid.

Zero2Cool (15-Nov) : MarShawn Lloyd has appendicitis according to Matt LaFleur.

Zero2Cool (14-Nov) : He probably plays DB.

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