[2011] Green Bay Packers vs Detroit Lions· Page 12

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

the entire defense has suffered from the loss of jenkins. his force on the line opened up opportunities for players all over our defense.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20

If Jenkins truly was what made this defense so good last season, letting him go was a major mis-calculation. I know there's more to it than that, but I'm not exactly sure what is it.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#112

Cullen Jenkins presence did help, but he took less money to sign with the Eagles. Granted, he probably would have taken even less if the Packers secured him prior to free agency and left more out of spite. I had assumed since he had a ring he'd take top dollar. Shows what I know.

I think saying Cullen Jenkins is why the Packers defense ranked last in yards is more hyperbole than accurate. When you go from say Nick Collins and Charlie Peprah to Charlie Peprah and Morgan Burnett, you lose a LOT of experience and communication. And you can see communication breakdowns all of the time in the Packers secondary. That is why teams are able to pass on the Packers so often and also because this season teams are trying to play catch up knowing they are in a shoot out with the Packers.

So yes, losing Cullen Jenkins hurt, but let's be realistic here ... losing Nick Collins hurt far more and his absence has more to do with the low ranking than Cullen Jenkins. Packers would have liked to have those 5.5 sacks from Cullen Jenkins, no doubt.

Edit, whoa, Cullen Jenkins only had 0.5 in the last 11 games he played this season.

nerdmann
Premier Member

12 years ago

#113

It's losing Mike Neal that hurt us. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

gbguy20
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#114

Cullen Jenkins presence did help, but he took less money to sign with the Eagles. Granted, he probably would have taken even less if the Packers secured him prior to free agency and left more out of spite. I had assumed since he had a ring he'd take top dollar. Shows what I know.

I think saying Cullen Jenkins is why the Packers defense ranked last in yards is more hyperbole than accurate. When you go from say Nick Collins and Charlie Peprah to Charlie Peprah and Morgan Burnett, you lose a LOT of experience and communication. And you can see communication breakdowns all of the time in the Packers secondary. That is why teams are able to pass on the Packers so often and also because this season teams are trying to play catch up knowing they are in a shoot out with the Packers.

So yes, losing Cullen Jenkins hurt, but let's be realistic here ... losing Nick Collins hurt far more and his absence has more to do with the low ranking than Cullen Jenkins. Packers would have liked to have those 5.5 sacks from Cullen Jenkins, no doubt.

Edit, whoa, Cullen Jenkins only had 0.5 in the last 11 games he played this season.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

My thought process is while Jenkins gets his own sacks, he certainly would have brought the sack total of everyone else up as well. With his pass rush + the improved pass rush of those around him, who knows how much the loss of nick collins would have affected us then. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of nick collins at all, because i completely agree with you, his loss was huge. But I just feel like when the quarterback has all day to sit in the pocket, no matter how good our secondary is they are going to get torn up.

It's losing Mike Neal that hurt us. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

I'd like to say, the thing that hurt us was relying on an unproven guy to replace the large presence that jenkins was. Letting Jenkins go was part of the plan....but the plan was awful, in my opinion. Hindsight, I guess.

BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#115

But I just feel like when the quarterback has all day to sit in the pocket, no matter how good our secondary is they are going to get torn up.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20

I agree with this. Improved secondary play would definitely help us, but with an anemic pass rush, an elite QB will throw someone open much more so than not. I think our coverage would hold up better with Collins in there, but in the end, just like at the beginning of the season, teams would move the ball at will on us with this pass rush. I would expect even more interceptions with Collins on the field, though, which would changes things a little. The bottom line is we HAVE to generate more pressure, especially with the play of our secondary.

zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

#116

I think it was a two-pronged problem. C Jenkins brought a lot of pressure and I actually rated him as Elite when it came to 3-4 DL. I had the stats to back up my Elite rating but that was last year. Not in the mood to go digging for them.

Then as Zero mentioned, let's not forget Nick Collins. Collins was an INT machine and had excellent communication skills. Yes, I too have seen communication breakdowns in the secondary this year. A lot.

So we lost 2 of our top 5 D players. C Jenkins > Raji, despite the hype Raji generates. Raji is Good, but he isn't Elite. Collins is Elite as well. The only other 2 defenders I'd rank as Elite are Woodson and CM3.

T Williams has the potential to be an Elite player. Sam Shields does as well. Neither have reached that status yet though but they're young.

Maybe I'm wrong, but Raji seemed like he was considerably better in '10 than in '11.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#117

I should be clear, by pointing out Cullen Jenkins sacks and mentioning his last 11 games, I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped. I think his presence opposite Clay Matthews III would have helped the defense overall. Right now, offenses can load up on Clay and worry not about much else in the box. I still feel the loss of Nick Collins is far more reason for the Packers defense giving up more yards this season than last. Without solid communication, you won't get far. Hell, look at the Patriots when they were doing good on defense. They didn't have any real big name players, but they communicated well and were smart players. I think the biggest name they had was Rodney Harrison ... you guessed it ... good communicator!!

zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

#118

But you can make up for an average to below average secondary with QB pressure, as we saw in the Giants vs Pats SB. The Giants' secondary was average at best. They won because Brady never had time to exploit it.

So I stick with the problem is two-fold.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#119

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer

I believe I stated it was as well two fold. I just feel the bigger ... ah ... fold? is Nick Collins absence. 🙂

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#120

I believe I stated it was as well two fold. I just feel the bigger ... ah ... fold? is Nick Collins absence. :)

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

We've been down this road several times before, and while I don't mean to minimize the significant of losing Collins, I still disagree. The best communication and coverage in the world will only last so long. Eventually, an elite QB is going to throw someone open, especially the likes of a Jimmy Graham, Sproles, Nicks, Cruz, Calvin Johnson, etc. That's why you always hear the "plan" to disrupt elite QBs like Brady et. al. is to pressure them and make them uncomfortable. If they're standing still taking their time in the pocket, they're going to hit someone enough to score significant points. Defenses HAVE to find some way to make the QB uncomfortable in the pocket or it's going to be a LONG day for them.

Pass rush can mask a weak secondary, but a great secondary can only mask for a lack of pass rush to a certain extent. Eventually, some type of pressure is going to be necessary to make some key stops. Obviously that's just my opinion and there is no right or wrong, but there it is.

Important Information:

The PACKERSHOME uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More Details Close

Fan Shout

Zero2Cool (6h) : He probably plays DB.

Zero2Cool (6h) : I don't even know who that Don is

packerfanoutwest (6h) : What position does Lemon play ?

dfosterf (6h) : I read this am that Don Lemon quit x, so there's that

Zero2Cool (13-Nov) : Seems some are flocking to BlueSky and leaving Tweeter. I wonder if BlueSky allows embeded lists

beast (12-Nov) : He's a review guy

Zero2Cool (12-Nov) : Jordy Nelson is still in the NFL.

Zero2Cool (11-Nov) : Ok, will do.

wpr (11-Nov) : Kevin, donate it to a local food pantry or whatever she wants to do with it. Thanks

wpr (11-Nov) : Kevin,

Zero2Cool (11-Nov) : Wayne, got your girl scout order.

dfosterf (11-Nov) : I believe Zero was being sarcastic

dfosterf (11-Nov) : Due to that rookie kicker Jake Bates that Zero said "he didn't want anyway". 58 yarder to tie the game, 52 yarder to win it. In fairness,

Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Lions escape with a win

Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : and now Goff looking better

Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Goff with ANOTHER INT

Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : and now Stroud throwing INTs

Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Goff having an ATROCIOUS game

wpr (11-Nov) : Happy birthday Corps. Ever faithful. Thanks dfosterf.

Mucky Tundra (10-Nov) : stiff armed by Baker Mayfield for about 5-7 yards and still managed to get a pass off

Mucky Tundra (10-Nov) : Nick Bosa

wpr (8-Nov) : Jets are Packers (L)East

Zero2Cool (8-Nov) : Jets released K Riley Patterson and signed K Anders Carlson to the practice squad.

wpr (8-Nov) : Thanks guys

Mucky Tundra (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday wpr!

Zero2Cool (7-Nov) : Anders Carlson ... released by 49ers

dfosterf (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday!😊😊😊

wpr (7-Nov) : Thanks Kevin.

Zero2Cool (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday, Wayne! 🎉🎂🥳

beast (7-Nov) : Edge Rushers is the same... it's not the 4-3 vs 3-4 change, it's the Hafley's version of the 4-3... as all 32 teams are actually 4-2

Zero2Cool (6-Nov) : OLB to DE and player requests trade. Yet folks say they are same.

beast (5-Nov) : In other news, the Green Bay Packers have signed Zero2Cool to update their website 😋 jk

beast (5-Nov) : Might just re-sign the kicker we got

beast (5-Nov) : Are there any kickers worth drafting next year?

Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Preston Smith for Malik Willis

Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Getting a 7th rounder from the Stillers

Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : At least we get 7th round pick now!! HELLO NEW KICKER

Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Steelers getting a premier lockdown corner!

Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Packers are trading edge rusher Preston Smith to the Pittsburgh Steelers, per sources.

Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Preston Smith traded to the Steelers!!!!

Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : CB Marshon Lattimore to Commanders

Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Bears are sending RB Khalil Herbert to the Bengals, per sources.

Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : ZaDarius Smith continues his "north" tour.

Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Let the Chiefs trade a 5th for him

Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Nearing 30, large contract, nope.

Martha Careful (5-Nov) : any interest in Marshon Lattimore?

Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : What does NFL do if they're over cap?

Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : They've been able to constantly push it out through extensions, void years etc but they're in the hole by 72 million next year I believe

hardrocker950 (4-Nov) : Seems the Saints are always in cap hell

Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : Saints HC job is not an envious one; gonna be in cap hell for 3 years

Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2024 Packers Schedule

Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM

Eagles

29 - 34

Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM

COLTS

16 - 10

Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM

Titans

30 - 14

Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM

VIKINGS

29 - 31

Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM

Rams

24 - 19

Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM

CARDINALS

34 - 13

Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM

TEXANS

24 - 22

Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM

Jaguars

30 - 27

Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM

LIONS

14 - 24

Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM

Bears

Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM

49ERS

Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM

DOLPHINS

Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM

Lions

Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM

Seahawks

Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM

SAINTS

Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM

Vikings

Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM

BEARS