macbob
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14 years ago
Posted on FoxSports, so some lovin' from them, too...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/two-teams-two-roads-to-today-41428980 

two teams, two roads to today

sean jensen. sjensen@suntimes.com , Chicago Sun-Times

The headquarters of the Bears and Green Bay Packers are separated by only three hours of highway, but the storied franchises traveled vastly different paths to the NFC Championship Game.

The Bears put a league-low two players on injured reserve and fielded a veteran lineup that remained remarkably healthy. The Packers, meanwhile, put 15 players on IR - tied for fifth-most in the NFL - and had 11 opening-day starters miss a combined 96 games. ''I think it's really a great credit to [Packers general manager] Ted Thompson and his staff that they've been able to weather that storm,'' said former Packers GM Ron Wolf, who led the team to back-to-back Super Bowls during the 1990s, including one victory. ''To me, that's a mind-set.'' One Thompson credited, naturally, to Wolf.

''That's where we all learned our business,'' Thompson said. Regardless, the Packers brilliantly have scouted the blue-chip players and found the diamonds in the rough. First-round picks such as quarterback Aaron Rodgers, linebacker Clay Matthews and defensive tackle B.J. Raji are cornerstones. But the Packers also have done well with players such as receiver Greg Jennings (second round), tight end Jermichael Finley (third), linebacker Desmond Bishop (sixth) and safety Nick Collins (second) and with unheralded players such as running back John Kuhn, linebacker Eric Walden and cornerback Tramon Williams. Williams, in fact, initially signed with the Houston Texans out of Louisiana Tech in May 2006. But the Texans didn't even think enough of him to carry him on their practice squad. The Packers worked him out in September 2006 but passed, then Williams got workouts with the Jacksonville Jaguars, Atlanta Falcons and Carolina Panthers. The Packers eventually signed him to their practice squad in November 2006. Williams was rewarded with a handsome contract extension in November, tormented the Falcons - a team that, ironically, was short-handed in the secondary - last weekend and was named to the Pro Bowl. ''I'm proud of our team, with what we've been able to do,'' Thompson said. ''Hopefully, we're not done yet. I'm proud of our coaching staff because it's not an easy thing . . . to keep bringing new guys in and getting them ready. But our coaches and new players have handled this extraordinary well.'' Last week, veteran linebackers Lance Briggs and Brian Urlacher were asked if they thought the window was closing on the Bears because they had so many 30-or-older players, particularly on defense. ''No, I'm 30; I'm not dead,'' Briggs quipped. The Bears have 15 players older than 30, and their average age on defense is 29. The offense, though, is considerably younger, with an average age of 27. The Bears haven't denied that they've been blessed with good health, but they've bristled at suggestions that they're too old. There were questions about their depth heading into the season, but young players such as cornerback D.J. Moore, defensive lineman Henry Melton, linebacker Nick Roach and defensive tackle Matt Toeaina have made meaningful contributions, while rookies such as safety Major Wright, defensive end Corey Wootton and offensive tackle J'Marcus Webb also have provided encouragement. In fact, one NFC North personnel director said Webb, a seventh-round pick, might emerge as the Bears' best offensive lineman by next season. ''He still makes a lot of mental mistakes,'' the director said. ''But it's [been] trial under fire, and he's played better.'' That isn't saying a whole lot because there's not leaguewide respect for the talent on the Bears' offensive line. But Frank Omiyale, 28, steadily has improved his play, and the Bears are encouraged by the potential of some of the young linemen on the bench. Most encouraging, though, is their offensive core. Quarterback Jay Cutler, running back Matt Forte, tight end Greg Olsen and receivers Earl Bennett, Devin Hester and Johnny Knox are all 28 or younger. There's no denying, however, that the Packers' roster is in better overall shape. With 15 players on IR, the Packers have a lot of quality players under contract, and they'll have the good fortune of being able to dump some. That's always a good problem. The Packers have only eight players on their roster older than 30, and 27 - more than half - are 25 or younger. The Packers might start two rookies today in right tackle Brian Bulaga and tight end Andrew Quarless. Just don't expect the Packers to get comfortable. ''Just when you think you know everything, the game comes back and bites you in the fanny and lets you know that you don't know everything,'' Wolf said. ''That's a magnificent part of the game. There are all these supposed geniuses, and when you think you're one, something lets you know that you're not. ''The best quarterback in the NFL [New England Patriots star Tom Brady] is the second player picked by a team in the sixth round.''

Chicago Sun Times wrote:

Greg C.
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14 years ago
The Bears have a lot of players over the age of 30, but I don't see why that age is being used as a benchmark for decline in play. It is a significant age for running backs, but for other positions, players are usually productive for several years after age 30--maybe up to 35 or so. I just checked the Bears roster, and here are their oldest starters, in order of age:

Brad Maynard, punter--37
Patrick Mannelly, long snapper--35
Olin Kreutz, center--33
Brian Urlacher, LB--32
Julius Peppers, DE--31
Charles Tillman, CB--30
Lance Briggs, LB--30
Israel Idonjie, DT--30

I just don't see this as that big a deal. The Bears' REAL problem is trying to put together enough offensive talent to make a run at a Super Bowl within the next three or four years, when age really does become a problem for several of their key players. Then again, they got to the NFC championship game this year and only lost by seven points to the eventual Super Bowl champion, so maybe they are not so far away after all.
blank
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
Regardless of the score, the got out played by the eventual super bowl winners and were lucky it was even close.

That TD that was taken away from Detroit would have also knocked them out of the playoffs. Just like in '96.

They were not as good as their record. They don't have any weapons for Cutler who is inconsistent and has no line.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
nerdmann
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14 years ago

Regardless of the score, the got out played by the eventual super bowl winners and were lucky it was even close.

That TD that was taken away from Detroit would have also knocked them out of the playoffs. Just like in '96.

They were not as good as their record. They don't have any weapons for Cutler who is inconsistent and has no line.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:




I agree, they weren't even close to as good as their record would suggest. Keep in mind that their team is also one put together out of desperation. Two years in a row Lovey has had to grasp at straws in order to save his job. They traded for Cutler one year and signed Peppers the next year. An aging team being held together with duct tape.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
millertime
14 years ago
I have a hard time bashing the Bears. They always keep things close against the Pack. I don't think they're close to being a Super Bowl team, but they definitely step up against the Pack.
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
The Bears didn't keep it close or step up. The Packers kept it close playing down to their level.

If it were not for getting handed the game, they would have been embearassed by 21 or more points.

It isn't bashing, they just are who they are.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Greg C.
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14 years ago

The Bears didn't keep it close or step up. The Packers kept it close playing down to their level.

If it were not for getting handed the game, they would have been embearassed by 21 or more points.

It isn't bashing, they just are who they are.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



Maybe you're thinking of that first Packers-Bears game, where the Packers committed 17 penalties. In the NFC championship game, the Bears played tough defense in the second half and caught a spark from their third string QB. It was not a comedy of errors for the Packers, like it was in that first game. It was legitimately close.
blank
warhawk
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14 years ago
The Bears don't have the depth that the Packers have. Had they not been extremely healthy well beyond what most teams experience injury wise they could not have kept their play at the level it was.

Where as Thompson holds onto his draft picks to create depth and counter injuries the Bears traded away picks for Cutler and Peppers. Not saying that was a bad move but it will affect the quality of depth on the team. Of course that doesn't show up or bite you in the butt when very few players are injured.

We'll see how it goes for them if players start going down. It's very unusual to see a defensive unit pretty much intact late in the year and that was a break they needed.
"The train is leaving the station."
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
What picks did the Bears trade for Julius Peppers? I thought he was a Free Agent signing. That's awesome if they gave up picks too!
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Tezzy
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14 years ago

The Bears have a lot of players over the age of 30, but I don't see why that age is being used as a benchmark for decline in play. It is a significant age for running backs, but for other positions, players are usually productive for several years after age 30--maybe up to 35 or so. I just checked the Bears roster, and here are their oldest starters, in order of age:

Brad Maynard, punter--37
Patrick Mannelly, long snapper--35
Olin Kreutz, center--33
Brian Urlacher, LB--32
Julius Peppers, DE--31
Charles Tillman, CB--30
Lance Briggs, LB--30
Israel Idonjie, DT--30

I just don't see this as that big a deal. The Bears' REAL problem is trying to put together enough offensive talent to make a run at a Super Bowl within the next three or four years, when age really does become a problem for several of their key players. Then again, they got to the NFC championship game this year and only lost by seven points to the eventual Super Bowl champion, so maybe they are not so far away after all.

"Greg C." wrote:



I think the concern here in Chicago is that when you have core defensive players at those ages, especially all of your defensive superstars, without any younger talent being breed at the moment. That's the complete opposite of the Packers. So I do understand their concern. Their defense played lights out last season. That window is quickly closing for them and would be a concern if it were my team of interest.
On top of every beard grows a man.
"The Bears are shell-shocked... and it's breaking my heart."
DakotaT
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14 years ago
I think our division rival will be the Detroit Lions for a couple years if and only if Stafford can stay healthy. Schwartz is building a pretty nasty front seven.
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Yerko
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14 years ago
Nice write-up, especially coming from a Chicago paper. I think the Bears are far-far-far from winning it all. They have so many gaps on their team its ridiculous. Think of Julius Peppers as a BIG band-aid to the team last year. Their defense is fine though and have been for awhile.

The offensive line is terrible and stating that a 7th round pick is one of the best isn't saying much.
Cutler behind a good offensive line is still going to need better wide receivers.
By the time all this gets figured out, the defense will then be aging.

I agree with Dakota, Lions are going to be the new rivals in the NFC North, pending Stafford's health. They already make me nervous.
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warhawk
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14 years ago

What picks did the Bears trade for Julius Peppers? I thought he was a Free Agent signing. That's awesome if they gave up picks too!

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



The Bears were without 1st and 2nd round picks in both '09 and '10 but I think your right that this wasn't because of Peppers.

In '09 we picked up Raji and Mathews and last year we got Bulaga and Neal.

This alone is one reason how we got younger, deeper, and, our younger players are better overall than the younger players on the Bears.

It didn't hurt us that a few young guys we have came out of nowhere as well like at CB and RB.
"The train is leaving the station."
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

What picks did the Bears trade for Julius Peppers? I thought he was a Free Agent signing. That's awesome if they gave up picks too!

"warhawk" wrote:



The Bears were without 1st and 2nd round picks in both '09 and '10.

In '09 we picked up Raji and Mathews and last year we got Bulaga and Neal.

This alone is one reason how we got younger, deeper, and, our younger players are better overall than the younger players on the Bears.

It didn't hurt us that a few young guys we have came out of nowhere as well like at CB and RB.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



That didn't remotely answer my question, lol.

Cutler Trade ...

Bears get
Jay Cutler
5th Rd 2009

Broncos get
Kyle Orton
1st Rd 2009
1st Rd 2010
3rd Rd 2009



2009 2nd Rd Pick - Chicago traded this selection to Seattle for Seattle's third- and fourth-round selections (68th and 105th overall, respectively).

2010 2nd Rd Pick - Chicago traded their second round pick to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for Gaines Adams.



So the 1st Rounders in '09 and '10 went for Jay Cutler, and the two 2nd Rounders went to Seattle and Tampa Bay.



Julius Peppers was a free agent signing from what I've found.




Thanks for making me research the Bears, jerk! :)


Edit, I was joking btw ...
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warhawk
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14 years ago
I personally think the Bears screwed up going the route they took. If your going to leverage what they did and give up what they gave up you better win it all.

Where the Packers will continue to get better because the younger guys they drafted will get better the Bears can only hope the players they have signed continue to play at the level they have played at before.

They needed a QB though that's for sure. The problem for them is that is not all they needed to play with the top tier teams. They won't get the draw they got last year when they played several teams missing their QB's. That can make a defense look a lot better than it really is.
"The train is leaving the station."
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Kyle Orton, plus the two 2 1st rounder picks > Jay Cutler.

They don't need a QB that can WIN them games, they need a game manager and that's what Kyle Orton is.

In my opinion, they should have used one of those picks for a WR, OL and defender. I think they'd be in a far better situation right now.
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warhawk
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14 years ago

Kyle Orton, plus the two 2 1st rounder picks > Jay Cutler.

They don't need a QB that can WIN them games, they need a game manager and that's what Kyle Orton is.

In my opinion, they should have used one of those picks for a WR, OL and defender. I think they'd be in a far better situation right now.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I agree. Orton gets no love wherever he goes but he always plays well.

Orton could have done what Martz ultimately is having Cutler do and is more comfortable doing it. You know Cutler would rather chuck it all over the place.

It makes no sense. You bring Martz and Cutler on board and end up playing the same conservative game manager type way you did before AND lose two first round picks in the process.

Probably does make sense to Bears fans but I don't get it.
"The train is leaving the station."
macbob
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14 years ago
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2011/03/champion_packers_improved_detr.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+detroit-lions+%28Detroit+Lions+-+MLive.com%29 

I love Lovie's quote below..lol...

Hope he gets used to saying it... :icon_smile:

Champion Packers: Improved Detroit Lions will be a 'challenge to us'

By Tom Kowalski

NEW ORLEANS - After losing 19 straight games in the NFC North, the Detroit Lions have won two straight - including a 7-3 win over the eventual Super Bowl-winning Green Bay Packers.

The head coaches in the division have taken notice of Detroit's rise and now believe the NFC North will be competitive from top to bottom.

"We spend a lot of time on our division games and I'll put our division up against anybody's,'' said Packers head coach Mike McCarthy. "I think it's very obvious that Detroit has improved their personnel. With the high picks they've had, they've done a good job of late. They have a lot of positives, from their offensive perimeter which is going to be one of the better ones in the league. It's just the consistency at quarterback. It's hard to play with three quarterbacks and they did a helluva job playing with three quarterbacks.''

"In our division, it's hard to win without the right guy under center. Green Bay is a great example of that,'' said Minnesota head coach Leslie Frazier.

While the Lions are waiting for Matthew Stafford to stay healthy - and join the production of guys like Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers and Chicago's Jay Cutler - the Vikings are still looking for their quarterback.

A good quarterback can cover up a lot of ills. There's a reason people do whatever they can to find that franchise quarterback,'' Frazier said.

"The Green Bay Packers are world champs - man, it's hard to say that,'' said Bears head coach Lovie Smith. "When you have the world champion in your division and Minnesota was in an NFC championship game not long ago and everybody wants to talk about the improvements that Detroit has made, it's a tough division. It's a quarterback division - with tough defense. From top to bottom, you've got to be ready. We think we match up well within the division.''

With the Packers winning the Super Bowl last year, some forget that it was the Bears who won the NFC North. All the coaches believe the competition will only get better and, for a change, it will include the Lions.

"I think we have gained a little bit of confidence in our division,'' said Lions head coach Jim Schwartz. "We played Chicago - they were a final four team - and we played them really close, less than a touchdown both times. We split with Green Bay and played a tough game at Lambeau and we haven't played a good game out there in awhile. It's business as usual in the NFL - everybody's good, everybody's dangerous and every coach can find a way where every team can potentially beat them.''

McCarthy believes the Lions will take a big step up when Stafford stays healthy and in the huddle.

"I think they're a young, excellent football team that is going to be much improved next year,'' he said. "Any time you play with a number of different quarterbacks, it's going to affect your team. I think once they get Matthew healthy and get more consistency there, they're definitely going to be a challenge for us.''

While quarterbacks might grab the headlines in the NFC North, the division is also becoming a haven for pass rushers. The Bears added Julius Peppers last year, the Packers have Clay Matthews and the Lions revamped almost their entire defensive line. And all four teams are looking to add more defensive linemen in this off-season because, as Smith says, you can never have enough.

"No, never can. Even if you love every one, the next year we'll be looking to see if we can get an improvement because it all starts there with us,'' Smith said. "Detroit hasn't maybe played as well defensively, but offensively with Stafford quarterbacking, they have good skill. There's a lot of offensive power in this division and that's why you have to put an emphasis on your defensive line to try to slow them down.''

mlive.com wrote:

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dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!
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dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
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Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
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Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
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