Zero2Cool
14 years ago

On this you and I agree. I've said before that despite his bullheadedness and stubbornness, I think he freezes or locks up or gets indecisive at critical junctures, sometimes at odd moments in which I don't understand why the decision seems hard to make.

I do believe he'll win more than he'll lose. I just wonder if he'll ever put together a consistent string of big-game victories. I hope he does.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I'm going to have to assume being a head coach with those responsibilities along with calling the offensive plays might be harder than sitting in a bar complaining about which play to call or what have you.

Sure, we can say do this, or do that, why not do this, fact is, we are not professionals, we don't know whats going on. I'm not trying to make excuses for McCarthy, but I'm saying, I don't think he can handle the pressures he's under WHILE making critical decisions in a limited time frame.

When you make those decisions and I, we're under NO pressure at all. If we're wrong, we get laughed at and it's forgotten. If he's wrong, he could lose his job.
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musccy
14 years ago
Warhawk raises some great points about how at 14-10 all the momentum was on the Eagles side, the crowd was deafening, and the Packers needed a statement drive. Rodgers, McCarthy and Co. produced just that yet nobody is willing to credit them for how crucial that drive was.

I also disagree with the 1st half criticism. We took our shot at Jones, he blew it, if I'm not mistaken this was followed by a delay of game penalty, and you could just feel that drive snowballing. We had an 11 point lead and started the 2nd half w/ the ball. We didn't need a repeat of Dallas v. Wash from this year.

As for the ending of the game, I was throwing stuff around the room and swearing when Rodgers was sacked as well but at the same time what would we all have said about M.M. if we threw an incompletion during the final drive? Many of the Phil wrs were complaining after the game that Vick didn't huddle up on the play that ended in an INT...that the play was rushed. Well if the Packers throw an incompletion, the Eagles have 2:40+ to work with on their final drive AND the 2 min. warning! How many "fire mike mccarthy' posts would we be reading after that?!?
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Warhawk raises some great points

"musccy" wrote:


He always does, it's great reading his stuff. ( even if he quotes me and goes on to a different point. 😛 )

I liked the taking a shot with James Jones. Thought it was a great call.

I do think we had time to get into field goal range, but I could be mistaken. I'd have to watch the last few minutes of the first half of the game again.
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

When you make those decisions and I, we're under NO pressure at all. If we're wrong, we get laughed at and it's forgotten. If he's wrong, he could lose his job.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Yes, but isn't that the whole point? I watch the game . . . for fun. I yell and scream and curse and cheer and applaud . . . for fun. I come here to talk about the game . . . for fun.

Mike McCarthy gets paid to do what he does.

Our motivations are totally different. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't see why it's so hard for some people to understand that. They seem to think that our critiquing the game means we're not having fun, when the reality is that it's part of the fun of the game. The joy of victory is inextricably intertwined with the agony of defeat, and at any given moment, a play can represent a little victory or a little defeat. It's the ups and downs of the game that make it so fun -- much more so than, say, baseball. Football is so complex and complicated and nerve-wracking and nuanced that a single game gives us enough to talk about for an entire week. That's amazing.

The thing that irks me is the people scoffing and saying our objections are "hindsight." As I've said before, the fact that a play works out doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision, any more than the fact a play doesn't work out necessarily means it was a bad decision. Most of the playcalls I dislike I'm objecting to -- quite loudly -- in the bar or my living room before I know what the results of the play are going to be. Even if I like what happens, that doesn't mean I change my mind to agree with the call, and there are times, say on 4th-down conversions, when the play fails, but I still agree with the attempt.

I can't count the number of times I've jumped out of my seat and yelled, "Whyyyy!!!" when I see our quarterback taking a deep drop on a 3rd-and-1, or our backs lining up in an I-formation on third-and-long, and then the receiver lays out for an amazing catch, or the back somehow gets the first down, and I yell and cheer along with everyone else, and I then sit back down, shaking my head, and say, "Well, okay." Just because I'm happy about the result doesn't mean I changed my evaluation of the play call.

That's not hindsight, just a difference in philosophy. I don't see what the problem is with that.
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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
14 years ago

all i ask to be different ... on 3rd and 1, stop using Kuhn on FB dives or whatever it is. Use Aaron on a rollout, let the FB/HB whomever flank or TE slide, something other than that damn run. We do not have the OL to out muscle people.

We get good yards rushing because its half not expected. 3rd and 1, everyone knows its a run and we just don't have it.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



EXACTLY!! If you and I and everyone else knows they are going to give it to Kuhn and run the ball ....... WHY do it?
Anything else would have been better.

It has to be some kind of arrogance thing. "They know we are going to run so if we succeed we can pound our chest?" Just get the %*()$# first down. So what if you have to get it by trickery. I don't care.

2 runs for nothing and the drop back pass for a sack had me screaming. They should have play action passed on 1st, ran off a draw on second and then rolled Rodgers out on 3rd. But if they would have they would have caught the Eagles flat footed and they would not have needed 3 tries to get a first down. IMHO.
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warhawk
14 years ago

I wonder how many close games the Packers will have to lose before people stop finding the cautious, don't-make-mistakes, play-not-to-lose strategy defensible.

Because the funny thing is, they do make mistakes. They're not fundamentally sound. They're not disciplined. And every so often (more often than not in one-possession games), it comes back to bite them in the ass.

10-6 was good enough (just barely) to get into the playoffs this year. You can afford a few losses in the regular season and it's not the end of the world.

You can't afford a single loss in the playoffs. One loss and you go home.

Just because decisions happen to work out in the end, doesn't mean they were the right decisions, just as the fact that a decision happens not to work out doesn't necessarily mean it was the wrong decision. I don't know why people seem to think a coach should be immune to criticism just because he happened to win the game. We're fans of the team, not blind sycophants of the staff.

I do agree that "pussy" is too strong a word. I just lack confidence in McCarthy's ability to consistently field an offense that will consistently attack the other team until it is hopelessly defeated. I think he'll win more often than not, but he'll always leave us nervous as hell when the games really count.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:




...and I wonder when a win will ever be good enough. I hear the running game sucks and then nothing when it doesn't. I hear the Oline sucks and then nothing when it doesn't. I hear we suck against the run and yet we are 6-1 in games we have played against teams among the top 10 in rushing (take that Jimmy Johnson).

I'm not saying McCarthy is "immune" but I also fell I can challenge in cases when I don't see it the way certain people call it. People talk about past games and even the 4th and 27 which I find ironic because in most of these games we lost to a FG.

We had leads in this game in the 2nd half of 11 and five. Not 3 or tied. You want McCarthy to "go for it" but oh no, don't do anything stupid and turn the ball over. I think it becomes a case of having your cake and eating it to.

You don't turn the ball over on the road. We already had twice and were lucky it didn't cook our goose but oh hell, put the "foot on their neck" you pussy.
"The train is leaving the station."
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

When you make those decisions and I, we're under NO pressure at all. If we're wrong, we get laughed at and it's forgotten. If he's wrong, he could lose his job.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Yes, but isn't that the whole point? I watch the game . . . for fun. I yell and scream and curse and cheer and applaud . . . for fun. I come here to talk about the game . . . for fun.

Mike McCarthy gets paid to do what he does.

Our motivations are totally different. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't see why it's so hard for some people to understand that. They seem to think that our critiquing the game means we're not having fun, when the reality is that it's part of the fun of the game. The joy of victory is inextricably intertwined with the agony of defeat, and at any given moment, a play can represent a little victory or a little defeat. It's the ups and downs of the game that make it so fun -- much more so than, say, baseball. Football is so complex and complicated and nerve-wracking and nuanced that a single game gives us enough to talk about for an entire week. That's amazing.

The thing that irks me is the people scoffing and saying our objections are "hindsight." As I've said before, the fact that a play works out doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision, any more than the fact a play doesn't work out necessarily means it was a bad decision. Most of the playcalls I dislike I'm objecting to -- quite loudly -- in the bar or my living room before I know what the results of the play are going to be. Even if I like what happens, that doesn't mean I change my mind to agree with the call, and there are times, say on 4th-down conversions, when the play fails, but I still agree with the attempt.

I can't count the number of times I've jumped out of my seat and yelled, "Whyyyy!!!" when I see our quarterback taking a deep drop on a 3rd-and-1, or our backs lining up in an I-formation on third-and-long, and then the receiver lays out for an amazing catch, or the back somehow gets the first down, and I yell and cheer along with everyone else, and I then sit back down, shaking my head, and say, "Well, okay." Just because I'm happy about the result doesn't mean I changed my evaluation of the play call.

That's not hindsight, just a difference in philosophy. I don't see what the problem is with that.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I think I may have inadvertently started a battle here. I don't believe I said there was a problem? Did I imply there was? I guess in more simple and direct spell it out words ... I'm saying being HC and play caller is too much for one man, well Mike McCarthy anyhow.
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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
14 years ago

They win and people still find something to complain about.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



GO PACK GO!

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Yes? Why are you raising your voice with me?

"Cuz481" wrote:


+1 for you. he forgot the dots.....
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Pack93z
14 years ago


...and I wonder when a win will ever be good enough. I hear the running game sucks and then nothing when it doesn't. I hear the Oline sucks and then nothing when it doesn't.

"warhawk" wrote:



;)

http://www.packershome.com/ForumsPro/viewtopic/p=183726.html#183726 

Starks played a very solid game.. and the offensive line looked better because of how he attacked holes.. that along with some solid lead blocking by Quinn and Kuhn..

But I was most impressed with his ball security throughout the game.. picked up everything he could then cradled the ball with both hands securely. Well done for a rookie.

Personally.. I loved the balance and allowing the offensive line to get into a groove.. until late were we tried to burn the clock.. they were very effective with the run and forced the Eagles to run blitz and pinch.. I kind of wanted Mike McCarthy to gut them late with a strong PA pass.

"Pack93z" wrote:

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
14 years ago


I would not want to count on the Falcons to miss as many opportunties as the Eagles did.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:



Well one thing is for sure- the wind won't be a factor.
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