Zero2Cool
14 years ago

On this you and I agree. I've said before that despite his bullheadedness and stubbornness, I think he freezes or locks up or gets indecisive at critical junctures, sometimes at odd moments in which I don't understand why the decision seems hard to make.

I do believe he'll win more than he'll lose. I just wonder if he'll ever put together a consistent string of big-game victories. I hope he does.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I'm going to have to assume being a head coach with those responsibilities along with calling the offensive plays might be harder than sitting in a bar complaining about which play to call or what have you.

Sure, we can say do this, or do that, why not do this, fact is, we are not professionals, we don't know whats going on. I'm not trying to make excuses for McCarthy, but I'm saying, I don't think he can handle the pressures he's under WHILE making critical decisions in a limited time frame.

When you make those decisions and I, we're under NO pressure at all. If we're wrong, we get laughed at and it's forgotten. If he's wrong, he could lose his job.
UserPostedImage
musccy
14 years ago
Warhawk raises some great points about how at 14-10 all the momentum was on the Eagles side, the crowd was deafening, and the Packers needed a statement drive. Rodgers, McCarthy and Co. produced just that yet nobody is willing to credit them for how crucial that drive was.

I also disagree with the 1st half criticism. We took our shot at Jones, he blew it, if I'm not mistaken this was followed by a delay of game penalty, and you could just feel that drive snowballing. We had an 11 point lead and started the 2nd half w/ the ball. We didn't need a repeat of Dallas v. Wash from this year.

As for the ending of the game, I was throwing stuff around the room and swearing when Rodgers was sacked as well but at the same time what would we all have said about M.M. if we threw an incompletion during the final drive? Many of the Phil wrs were complaining after the game that Vick didn't huddle up on the play that ended in an INT...that the play was rushed. Well if the Packers throw an incompletion, the Eagles have 2:40+ to work with on their final drive AND the 2 min. warning! How many "fire mike mccarthy' posts would we be reading after that?!?
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Warhawk raises some great points

"musccy" wrote:


He always does, it's great reading his stuff. ( even if he quotes me and goes on to a different point. 😛 )

I liked the taking a shot with James Jones. Thought it was a great call.

I do think we had time to get into field goal range, but I could be mistaken. I'd have to watch the last few minutes of the first half of the game again.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

When you make those decisions and I, we're under NO pressure at all. If we're wrong, we get laughed at and it's forgotten. If he's wrong, he could lose his job.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Yes, but isn't that the whole point? I watch the game . . . for fun. I yell and scream and curse and cheer and applaud . . . for fun. I come here to talk about the game . . . for fun.

Mike McCarthy gets paid to do what he does.

Our motivations are totally different. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't see why it's so hard for some people to understand that. They seem to think that our critiquing the game means we're not having fun, when the reality is that it's part of the fun of the game. The joy of victory is inextricably intertwined with the agony of defeat, and at any given moment, a play can represent a little victory or a little defeat. It's the ups and downs of the game that make it so fun -- much more so than, say, baseball. Football is so complex and complicated and nerve-wracking and nuanced that a single game gives us enough to talk about for an entire week. That's amazing.

The thing that irks me is the people scoffing and saying our objections are "hindsight." As I've said before, the fact that a play works out doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision, any more than the fact a play doesn't work out necessarily means it was a bad decision. Most of the playcalls I dislike I'm objecting to -- quite loudly -- in the bar or my living room before I know what the results of the play are going to be. Even if I like what happens, that doesn't mean I change my mind to agree with the call, and there are times, say on 4th-down conversions, when the play fails, but I still agree with the attempt.

I can't count the number of times I've jumped out of my seat and yelled, "Whyyyy!!!" when I see our quarterback taking a deep drop on a 3rd-and-1, or our backs lining up in an I-formation on third-and-long, and then the receiver lays out for an amazing catch, or the back somehow gets the first down, and I yell and cheer along with everyone else, and I then sit back down, shaking my head, and say, "Well, okay." Just because I'm happy about the result doesn't mean I changed my evaluation of the play call.

That's not hindsight, just a difference in philosophy. I don't see what the problem is with that.
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
14 years ago

all i ask to be different ... on 3rd and 1, stop using Kuhn on FB dives or whatever it is. Use Aaron on a rollout, let the FB/HB whomever flank or TE slide, something other than that damn run. We do not have the OL to out muscle people.

We get good yards rushing because its half not expected. 3rd and 1, everyone knows its a run and we just don't have it.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



EXACTLY!! If you and I and everyone else knows they are going to give it to Kuhn and run the ball ....... WHY do it?
Anything else would have been better.

It has to be some kind of arrogance thing. "They know we are going to run so if we succeed we can pound our chest?" Just get the %*()$# first down. So what if you have to get it by trickery. I don't care.

2 runs for nothing and the drop back pass for a sack had me screaming. They should have play action passed on 1st, ran off a draw on second and then rolled Rodgers out on 3rd. But if they would have they would have caught the Eagles flat footed and they would not have needed 3 tries to get a first down. IMHO.
UserPostedImage
warhawk
14 years ago

I wonder how many close games the Packers will have to lose before people stop finding the cautious, don't-make-mistakes, play-not-to-lose strategy defensible.

Because the funny thing is, they do make mistakes. They're not fundamentally sound. They're not disciplined. And every so often (more often than not in one-possession games), it comes back to bite them in the ass.

10-6 was good enough (just barely) to get into the playoffs this year. You can afford a few losses in the regular season and it's not the end of the world.

You can't afford a single loss in the playoffs. One loss and you go home.

Just because decisions happen to work out in the end, doesn't mean they were the right decisions, just as the fact that a decision happens not to work out doesn't necessarily mean it was the wrong decision. I don't know why people seem to think a coach should be immune to criticism just because he happened to win the game. We're fans of the team, not blind sycophants of the staff.

I do agree that "pussy" is too strong a word. I just lack confidence in McCarthy's ability to consistently field an offense that will consistently attack the other team until it is hopelessly defeated. I think he'll win more often than not, but he'll always leave us nervous as hell when the games really count.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:




...and I wonder when a win will ever be good enough. I hear the running game sucks and then nothing when it doesn't. I hear the Oline sucks and then nothing when it doesn't. I hear we suck against the run and yet we are 6-1 in games we have played against teams among the top 10 in rushing (take that Jimmy Johnson).

I'm not saying McCarthy is "immune" but I also fell I can challenge in cases when I don't see it the way certain people call it. People talk about past games and even the 4th and 27 which I find ironic because in most of these games we lost to a FG.

We had leads in this game in the 2nd half of 11 and five. Not 3 or tied. You want McCarthy to "go for it" but oh no, don't do anything stupid and turn the ball over. I think it becomes a case of having your cake and eating it to.

You don't turn the ball over on the road. We already had twice and were lucky it didn't cook our goose but oh hell, put the "foot on their neck" you pussy.
"The train is leaving the station."
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

When you make those decisions and I, we're under NO pressure at all. If we're wrong, we get laughed at and it's forgotten. If he's wrong, he could lose his job.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Yes, but isn't that the whole point? I watch the game . . . for fun. I yell and scream and curse and cheer and applaud . . . for fun. I come here to talk about the game . . . for fun.

Mike McCarthy gets paid to do what he does.

Our motivations are totally different. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't see why it's so hard for some people to understand that. They seem to think that our critiquing the game means we're not having fun, when the reality is that it's part of the fun of the game. The joy of victory is inextricably intertwined with the agony of defeat, and at any given moment, a play can represent a little victory or a little defeat. It's the ups and downs of the game that make it so fun -- much more so than, say, baseball. Football is so complex and complicated and nerve-wracking and nuanced that a single game gives us enough to talk about for an entire week. That's amazing.

The thing that irks me is the people scoffing and saying our objections are "hindsight." As I've said before, the fact that a play works out doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision, any more than the fact a play doesn't work out necessarily means it was a bad decision. Most of the playcalls I dislike I'm objecting to -- quite loudly -- in the bar or my living room before I know what the results of the play are going to be. Even if I like what happens, that doesn't mean I change my mind to agree with the call, and there are times, say on 4th-down conversions, when the play fails, but I still agree with the attempt.

I can't count the number of times I've jumped out of my seat and yelled, "Whyyyy!!!" when I see our quarterback taking a deep drop on a 3rd-and-1, or our backs lining up in an I-formation on third-and-long, and then the receiver lays out for an amazing catch, or the back somehow gets the first down, and I yell and cheer along with everyone else, and I then sit back down, shaking my head, and say, "Well, okay." Just because I'm happy about the result doesn't mean I changed my evaluation of the play call.

That's not hindsight, just a difference in philosophy. I don't see what the problem is with that.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I think I may have inadvertently started a battle here. I don't believe I said there was a problem? Did I imply there was? I guess in more simple and direct spell it out words ... I'm saying being HC and play caller is too much for one man, well Mike McCarthy anyhow.
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
14 years ago

They win and people still find something to complain about.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



GO PACK GO!

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Yes? Why are you raising your voice with me?

"Cuz481" wrote:


+1 for you. he forgot the dots.....
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago


...and I wonder when a win will ever be good enough. I hear the running game sucks and then nothing when it doesn't. I hear the Oline sucks and then nothing when it doesn't.

"warhawk" wrote:



;)

http://www.packershome.com/ForumsPro/viewtopic/p=183726.html#183726 

Starks played a very solid game.. and the offensive line looked better because of how he attacked holes.. that along with some solid lead blocking by Quinn and Kuhn..

But I was most impressed with his ball security throughout the game.. picked up everything he could then cradled the ball with both hands securely. Well done for a rookie.

Personally.. I loved the balance and allowing the offensive line to get into a groove.. until late were we tried to burn the clock.. they were very effective with the run and forced the Eagles to run blitz and pinch.. I kind of wanted Mike McCarthy to gut them late with a strong PA pass.

"Pack93z" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
14 years ago


I would not want to count on the Falcons to miss as many opportunties as the Eagles did.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:



Well one thing is for sure- the wind won't be a factor.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (8h) : Bahah, I was like WTF why isn't anyone posting on PP.com ... oops no one has permissions
dfosterf (10h) : tell her I reckon
dfosterf (10h) : Micah Robinson cut. Probable PS player tomorrow. Has to call mom back and t
Zero2Cool (13h) : New site so much better. Might make switch and deal with it.
dfosterf (13h) : Mecole Hardman to our practice squad
dfosterf (13h) : Nick Nieman from Texans our 5th linebacker. Special teams signing
TheKanataThrilla (14h) : Looks like we signed Clayton Tune as QB3
wpr (14h) : TKT people lose their minds over QB3. Point is almost none of them are ready that's why they are on the PS and other teams don't take them.
TheKanataThrilla (15h) : Unfortunately he doesn't seem ready to be an emergency QB.
TheKanataThrilla (15h) : As a Canadian and a follower of Canadian University football. I am rooting for him
dfosterf (15h) : I bet a lot of us will follow the Taylor Elgersma journey with interest. Personally, got a Kurt Warner vibe goin' on. I like him
TheKanataThrilla (15h) : Not sure if either will be claimed though.
TheKanataThrilla (15h) : Tune or Hooker would make sense
dfosterf (16h) : Clayton Tune cut by the Cards? Don't know if that's the guy, we shall see
TheKanataThrilla (16h) : Per Bill Huber, the Packers will not be bringing back Taylor Elgersma or Sean Clifford on the practice squad, so a new third quarterback
Mucky Tundra (17h) : Schefter must have deleted his tweet
dfosterf (18h) : Hopefully Jerry reaches under the seat cushions and ashtrays of his jet and scrapes up the 45 million apr and spares us further nonsense
dfosterf (18h) : Have to admit the PO'd Cowboy fan videos would be fun to watch. Problem with draft picks is half their fanbase barely knows what that is
beast (18h) : I think Cowboys fans are ready to get their pitch forks and burning sticks if Jerry were to trade Micah
dfosterf (18h) : If Jerry traded Micah to GB, here in northern Va. they would have to quick build yet another data center to handle the internet hate traffic
Zero2Cool (19h) : its signing and trades that you don't hear about, other then announced
Zero2Cool (19h) : If you hear rumors about Packers sign or trade, won't happen. Not how they work
dfosterf (19h) : 19 players in a contract year. Jones called loss to us worst loss in Cowboy history. Forget Parsons trade. Not happenin' Cap'n
packerfanoutwest (20h) : The Packers, meanwhile, are the youngest team in the league for the third consecutive year.
dfosterf (22h) : That it was darkest before the dawn in Bengals and Commanders before they got deals done
Zero2Cool (23h) : what is Schefter saying?
dfosterf (23h) : He was getting Dorito infusion therapy
dfosterf (23h) : He's outta shape. Why, just the other day I saw him splayed out on the trainers table
Mucky Tundra (27-Aug) : Parsons has followed Rasheed Walker on Twitter. Quite the choice
Mucky Tundra (27-Aug) : Kuhn is a former player who works for the team, if somethings going down, he would be close to it
Mucky Tundra (27-Aug) : @kuhnj30 Micah Freaking Parsons
Mucky Tundra (27-Aug) : A LOT of buzz on the Bird App regarding Parsons; even Schefter is saying it's serious
dfosterf (26-Aug) : *Orzech*
dfosterf (26-Aug) : Orzich long snapper 3 yr extension
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : Packers signed someone for three year deal
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : lol i know it's insane ... sign up for the waiver wire then you'll know
wpr (26-Aug) : YES!!!!!!
Mucky Tundra (26-Aug) : WE WANT THE LIST! WE WANT THE LIST!
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : @JJLahey · 2m Holy crap, Packers, where the heck is the list?
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : haha folks on Tweeter every year this time ... 'where is list Packers!!" hahaha
wpr (26-Aug) : He played pretty good.
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : NAZIR STACKHOUSE HAS MADE THE 53
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : NOOOOO KALEN IS GONE
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : Kalen King and Kamal Hadden making it. me thinks
schroeder84 (26-Aug) : @dfosterf I suspect Elgersma WILL be hard to hide. Raw, but talented
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : pp.com is broken, halt testing, gotta go do work things for a bit
hardrocker950 (26-Aug) : Mecole Hardman was released, to the surprise of few
Zero2Cool (26-Aug) : PP.com updated. Reset Password works, and now User Profile pages are a thing
Zero2Cool (25-Aug) : Soft hope plan is having fantasy football weekly on-site that i build. cannot do that with this setup.
Zero2Cool (25-Aug) : It's older technology, resource hog, cannot be upgraded/changed. That's to start.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
9h / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

9h / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

11h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

27-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

26-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

26-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

25-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

24-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

24-Aug / Around The NFL / beast

23-Aug / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

22-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

21-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.