BangTheDrum
14 years ago

anyone else think this has something to do with the cba? At this rate the nfl will have all kinds of money incase there is a lockout.

"dingus" wrote:



I believe the fines go to charity Hazer

"dhazer" wrote:



Yeah, the NFL doesnt just collect this money for the books, that would be the most unethical thing in history... lol
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Ba da da, Ba dadada GO PACK GO
IronMan
14 years ago
If players tackled properly, this wouldn't be an issue.

Fundamentals > launching yourself at someone to get on Sportscenter's top ten list.

Collins' hit on Williams was bad tackling technique, and dumb.
Chutzpah515
14 years ago

Fundamentals > launching yourself at someone to get on Sportscenter's top ten list.

"IronMan" wrote:



LOL He made the top ten?
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djcubez
14 years ago

If players tackled properly, this wouldn't be an issue.

Fundamentals > launching yourself at someone to get on Sportscenter's top ten list.

Collins' hit on Williams was bad tackling technique, and dumb.

"IronMan" wrote:



While I agree with you I find it hard to believe that players aren't (or at least weren't) taught to hit receivers like that. It's strategic to do so.

At the point of the hit the receiver hasn't necessarily caught the ball yet. If the safety were to just go for the tackle he'd be conceding the yardage and the completion. But if the safety goes for the hit with the intention of jarring the ball loose he'd be forcing an incompletion.

And while it is a strategic move there's a proper way to do it--to lead with the shoulder into the players chest or back. If you listen to Ray Anderson describe a clean hit this is almost exactly was he says. I believe in watching the Collins play that he was leading with his shoulder in attempt to deliver a legal hit but his helmet made incidental contact because of the angle of Roy Williams body. And don't say "well he shouldn't have lowered his head." Try lowering your shoulder like you were making a hit and keep your head high. Your body just doesn't work that way (at least mine doesn't lol).

EDIT: Watching the play again it doesn't look malicious at all. Collins is driving his left shoulder to hit Williams square in the back, but Williams is at an odd angle making Collins helmet first to hit.
spicnspan320
14 years ago
I think the fine was merited as it was a dangerous play overall but good to see he didn't get suspended with such a big fine. It doesn't look intentional by any means as he was trying to drive his shoulder into Williams but at the same time, he should have come in under more control and in a proper manner.
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Chutzpah515
14 years ago

And while it is a strategic move there's a proper way to do it--to lead with the shoulder into the players chest or back. If you listen to Ray Anderson describe a clean hit this is almost exactly was he says. I believe in watching the Collins play that he was leading with his shoulder in attempt to deliver a legal hit but his helmet made incidental contact because of the angle of Roy Williams body. And don't say "well he shouldn't have lowered his head." Try lowering your shoulder like you were making a hit and keep your head high. Your body just doesn't work that way (at least mine doesn't lol).

"djcubez" wrote:



Excellent point with lowering your shoulder while keeping your head high. The hit was intentional, however the helmet contact wasn't.
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djcubez
14 years ago
I don't know why but I took the time to take some screenshots from the video and throw up my own idea of what's going on.

Angle 1

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Angle 2

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(NOTE: All the action in these screenshots happens in less than a second)

I'm not trying to completely excuse the hit but I think it provides a lot of evidence for what Mark Schlereth and other NFL or former NFL players are trying to say--in that split second you can't just lift your head and avoid the helmet-to-helmet contact. After you've committed to make a play you can't know exactly where the receivers helmet is going to be at the moment of impact.
Greg C.
14 years ago
Thanks for the still photos. I agree that Collins was aiming for Williams' back, but Williams dropped down at the last instant.

I also agree that the NFL needs to look at these plays on a case-by-case basis and make a judgment about intent before deciding on the punishment. Otherwise they are going the route of the "roughing the passer" penalty where it's a personal foul when a defender accidentally brushes a QB's helmet with his hand.

Having said all that, this issue honestly kind of bores me. I accept the fact that there are going to be some inaccurate personal foul calls because refs can't always make the correct judgment in the heat of the moment. Also, I believe in the basic premise of protecting players who are in a defenseless position. I won't get mad about all of this until the rules start getting really stupid. They are moving in that direction but they are not there yet.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
The amount of rules is already stupid.
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14 years ago

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"djcubez" wrote:




EXCELLENT work. You should submit this to the commissioner's office, or send it to Nick.
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