Yerko
14 years ago
The NFL is going to start fining offensive and defensive linemen for colliding with helmets first.

Fullbacks are next. Talk about a player who is more than 50% of the time using his helmet on a block/hit.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago

I just think the whole "fundamental" perspective is hilarious.
1.How many times a game do you actually see a player making a fundamental tackle?
2. How many times do you jump out of your seat after seeing a hit such as this?
3. If there was no flag thrown, you all would be saying THAT WAS A GREAT HIT.
Its football, hits like this happen. To add, I did believe he deserved the fine because he broke a rule but lay off the mumbo-jumbo fundamental b.s.

"G-Force" wrote:



1. Extremely rarely. Which IMO detracts significantly from the quality of the product being provided.
2. Very rarely. I haven't celebrated "BANG!" hits for years.
3. Nope. I don't define "good" by whether something is "legal" or not. IMO those who define "what's moral" or "what's good" by "what's legal" seriously misunderstand the role that law/rules play.

Yes, hits happen. And if they happen, they should be chastised in some way.

If I want to see a human missile, I'll go to the circus. If I want to see quality football, I want to see people who can stop people dead in their tracks by proper tackling.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Greg C.
14 years ago

IMO he ducked his head AFTER the ball had already passed Williams hands.

"Wade" wrote:



That's what I thought when I first looked at DJ's pictures, but then I realized that from Collins' angle, he could not see that Williams had dropped the pass because Williams was blocking his view. And keep in mind that the entire time elapsed in that picture sequence is probably somewhere around half a second.

CORRECTION: I watched the game again, and Collins COULD in fact see the ball pop out before he hit Williams. It was still a bang-bang play though. As pack93z said, players will just have to get in the habit of aiming lower.
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Yerko
14 years ago


1. Extremely rarely. Which IMO detracts significantly from the quality of the product being provided.
2. Very rarely. I haven't celebrated "BANG!" hits for years.
3. Nope. I don't define "good" by whether something is "legal" or not. IMO those who define "what's moral" or "what's good" by "what's legal" seriously misunderstand the role that law/rules play.

Yes, hits happen. And if they happen, they should be chastised in some way.

If I want to see a human missile, I'll go to the circus. If I want to see quality football, I want to see people who can stop people dead in their tracks by proper tackling.

"Wade" wrote:



I am not trying to come off as an ass in this but NFL players rarely form tackle, which is why I am ignoring that argument. I can get excited by any hit as long as the other player goes down. I still celebrate the big hits, why not? In the same sense if a player doesn't use form and misses a tackle, I get pissed (I am a hypocrite).

In this position, Collins has no reason to make a form tackle nor is he in the proper place to do so. All he was trying to do was knock that ball loose had Williams somehow got a hand on it.

Anyways, like yourself...I can appreciate a form tackle when it happens.

Clay Matthews hit on Marion Barber. THAT was form! :thumbright:
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Greg C.
14 years ago

And to think, all this wouldn't matter if there weren't so many damn pansies in the world. THIS IS FOOTBALL!!!! PEOPLE GET HIT!!! All through out my playing days when on defense I was told to hit the player so it hurt, so they wouldn't want to get back up. On the offense line I was told to put the defender on his ass...

You don't like it, go play or watch soccer.

I am all about player safety, but my goodness the NFL is taking a dump right now and really living up to the No Fun League.

"G-Force" wrote:



I don't think "pansies" enter into the picture, considering that pro football probably results in more catastrophic injuries than any other sport. I bet it's not even close.

It's all well and good that back in your playing days you were told to hit players so that they could not get up, but I'm guessing that you were nowhere near as strong or fast as NFL players. That's why the NFL keeps having to make these new rules. The players keep getting stronger and faster.

I don't mind when the league takes measures to reduce head injuries, but I agree with pack93z that they should have waited till the off-season, like they usually do when they make such changes. Like so many things the league does, this smacks of look-goodism more than a serious attempt to address the problem.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I think Hockey is right there or past the NFL in injuries. Puck to the face?
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Yerko
14 years ago


I don't think "pansies" enter into the picture, considering that pro football probably results in more catastrophic injuries than any other sport. I bet it's not even close.

It's all well and good that back in your playing days you were told to hit players so that they could not get up, but I'm guessing that you were nowhere near as strong or fast as NFL players. That's why the NFL keeps having to make these new rules. The players keep getting stronger and faster.

I don't mind when the league takes measures to reduce head injuries, but I agree with pack93z that they should have waited till the off-season, like they usually do when they make such changes. Like so many things the league does, this smacks of look-goodism more than a serious attempt to address the problem.

"Greg C." wrote:



I'm only 25 so back then was only two years ago and yes, that is why I am posting in a football forum.

I was trying to say players are taught to hit as hard as they can, when they can and when a big hit is made, it can easily be a game changer as well.

The hit was illegal, it was dangerous, and it was properly taken care of. I just think it was an accident. I think back to Zombo's helmet to helmet (no where near to comparable obviously). He was easily in position to make a form tackle...had the wrap up and everything, but his helmet made contact with the qb's chin. Pure accident, minor fine (major to him).

Who cares anyways, Nick Collins can more than afford it.

NFL should donate some of this fine money to my student loan debt.
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Pack93z
14 years ago
The NFL usually gets this right, in this case though, this should have been released prior to the change.


League releases guidelines regarding hitting
Posted by Mike Florio on November 10, 2010 12:37 AM ET
At a time when the media and multiple players have failed to provide NFL fans with clear information regarding prohibited and permitted actions when it comes to hitting in football and only one day after Commissioner Roger Goodell missed an opportunity to provide a clear statement regarding the line between aggressive football action and a violation of the rules during an on-air interview with ESPN's Michele Tafoya, the league has released to the media its "Player Safety" guidelines.

These are not the official rules, but the document that explains what the rules allow and forbid, including diagrams of illegal hits. It was included in the 2010 League Policies for Players manual, which is distributed to all players and coaches at the opening of training camp. (And which, unfortunately, is actually read by likely less than one percent of its recipients.)

"We hope this information is helpful in understanding the NFL's player safety-related rules," NFL V.P. of football communications Michael Signora wrote in the e-mail accompanying the document. "There has been no change in rules since the start of the season, only an increase in the level of discipline for violations of existing rules."

The rules are fairly simple. Defenseless players can't be hit in the helmet or neck area, and they can't be struck with a helmet in any area of the body.

Defenseless players include: (a) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (b) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (c) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (d) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (e) a player on the ground at the end of a play.

Also, a receiver who has completed a catch (i.e., two feet down and a "football move") and who has not had time to protect himself cannot be struck in head, neck, or face via a launch, even if the initial contact occurs at a point lower than the neck of the receiver.

As we've recently pointed out, hitting a ball carrier with the helmet or in the helmet is not prohibited, unless the use of the helmet amounts to spearing. It's a know-it-when-you-see-it distinction. Players routinely dip their helmets/facemasks into a tackle, while still seeing their target. Helmet-to-helmet contact resulting from that maneuver is allowed. Dropping the helmet and ramming the top of it into an opponent constitutes spearing, a maneuver now rarely seen in football at any level because of the high risk of compression -- and fracture -- of the spine.

Hopefully, members of the media will come up with effective strategies for weaving this information into the coverage of NFL games. For now, the P.R. battle is being won by the skirts-and-flag-football crowd, with too little clear and accurate information being provided to fans who would be inclined to argue in response that the league is targeting only a narrow window of hits that entail enhanced risk of injury.

Big hits are still allowed, as Bengals Terrell Owens learned Monday night when Steelers safety Troy Polamalu flattened T.O. with a clean shoulder hit to the midsection. Owens bounced right up; all too often, receivers who take that kind of a hit to the head don't.

"PFTalk" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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Zero2Cool (4h) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (18h) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
wpr (15-Nov) : wow. That three different things for the kid.
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